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Sohc Questions

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by sohcslammer, May 30, 2003.

  1. sohcslammer

    sohcslammer Senior Member

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    Other than the pistons, rods, valve springs and retainers, what do I need for a rebuild? Oh, yeah, and cam of course. Right now I have picked out the Crower titainum valve-spring/retainer set, Zex cam # 59300, and DOHC ZC pistons/rods. Thanx to some great inside info I am told I wil get about 12.3:1 cr with this setup. ;) Can I still run pump gas? (Supreme obviously) What else do I need? I was going to go with the vennom IM too. Any info would be apreciated... Can I bore the cylinders .30 over and still use the pitons? What ECU should I use? Is there a better cam or spring/retainer set I could use? Right now, this is a VERY low buck setup... about $650 without the manifold. :D Thanx in advance -
    Shadney
     
  2. jamiedude

    jamiedude Senior Member

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    i heard this along time ago so correct me if im wrong. :unsure:

    the 88 integra rods can be used in the d16z6 while not affecting stroke
    they are alot tougher and i believe they can hold up to 215 horse power.

    they're only like 100 bucks at a junkyard too.

    IMO once you bore a motor out more than .020 you are better off sleeving it because it not a good feeling :( taking the head off of your vehicle on a friday night:rant: to only find out that that :blink: noise was worse than what you thought.

    whos throws a shoe i mean come on
     
  3. sohcslammer

    sohcslammer Senior Member

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    Calesta? Pissed? Pills? LsVtec? Anyone?
     
  4. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Don't bore it unless you're going to get pistons that match the larger bore. As far as I know, there are no .030 oversize ZC pistons. Honda typically only makes .25mm and .50mm overbore pistons, not .762mm. Any used ZC pistons you buy for dirt cheap from somewhere are most likely going to be the stock bore also. Don't bore out the sleeve unless you absolutely have to for clean-up purposes. The extra 12cc or so that you gain isn't worth the cost of new pistons, especially if you're trying to keep costs down.

    Can you run it on pump gas? Yup. I ran my 12.6:1 compression setup on 93 octane gas. I know of some people running even higher on 91 octane- but it takes careful tuning. If you go too high, you'll either have to spray too much fuel to keep temperatures and detonation down (and kill your power) or you'll run too lean/hot and melt something. 12.3:1 should be ok on 91 octane with good tuning though.

    Jamiedude- the ZC rods are still the strongest out of the bunch. The old 1G Integra rods are physically larger, but they aren't any stronger.

    I believe that the Crower Stage 3 cam is more aggressive than the ZEX 59300, but you might want to dig up some specs on it. I don't have them in front of me right now. Other SOHC cam sources include EF1 and Exospeed.
     
  5. sohcslammer

    sohcslammer Senior Member

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    Thanx Calesta. I am worried that my motor IS going to need some clean-up, its got @ 160k on it. And the last 60k WASN'T nice. :p I was definetlly thinking of the Crower cam too tho... good call. So, how do I know if I need to bore it? Short of ripping it apart. I wanted to get the pistons BEFORE I tore apart my motor. Think I can just buy the cam, pistons, rods, springs and retainers and slap them in? Or will I need to have a shop "rebuild" it? Also, will I see an advantage with the y8 manifold over mine? And a venom IM over the y8? Shit, works over! I gotta go!
    Peace- Shadney
     
  6. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    No problem.

    I'm going to be doing more heavy duty research on the SOHC cams for myself later, so ask me a while from now.

    :)

    The only way to know if you'll need to bore your sleeve is to tear apart the engine and look at it. You could always just plan to have the block bored anyway, then just buy the larger pistons and rings and have them put in. The major disadvantage here is that you lose the chance to bore out your engine later if it really needs material removed to clean up some scoring of the sleeve a few weeks/months/years down the line.

    As for having a shop assemble the block vs doing it yourself, there's no reason why you couldn't do it all in your garage. Just make sure that you have all the proper tools and take your time. You will have to get the pistons and rods pressed together at a machine shop if they're OEM. Aftermarket forged units slide together and clip in place.

    The Y8 manifold will flow better than the Z6, but I don't know how much better, and how much better (if any) the Venom manifold is.
     
  7. knowledge

    knowledge Senior Member

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    Just to info you guys from experiance. Yes the DOHC ZC rods are quite strong. BUT.... the weak link in the ZC is the pistons! If I was you I would ditch the ZC pistons and get some good forged pistons. The Z6 and DOHC ZC pistons are swappable. You might be better off with the Z6 pistons bro!
     
  8. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    i dont understand why you are willing to spend 1500 on building up a d-series.
    save a little more and swap.

    i dunno, i'm very anti- d-series lately.... POS lol
     
  9. knowledge

    knowledge Senior Member

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    You my friend are like most people. Everybody wants to do a swap. B series this and B series that. Now dropping a H series is getting so popular to be original you have to stick with a D series. I look at it this way... Yes you can extract more power out of a B or H series. But I am on a budget here. I can get enough power out of my Z6 to keep me happy in my car. Yes I have a plan set out in my mind for an all out drag CRX. It won't happen anytime soon though. All I want out of my Z6 is 300+ WHP. That is my goal! Is it a reachable goal? Yes, but it will require some money and work. Also when I run guys with N/A LS's and B16's staying N/A and they ask what swap I got. I tell um it's a SOHC D series that just roasted them. I wanna see the looks on thier face's. You even say that anything over 300+WHP isn't very streetable. Well whats the differance running a 300WHP D series or a 300WHP B series? Obviously the B series is heavyer. Yeah yeah not by much but when we talking 10th of a second, well weight matters. You can bring up torque if you want. Do you think the extra 10-15lbs of torque out weighs the weight differences between series engines? If so it is very marginal. I dunno maybe I am crazy B for sticking with my Z6, but all I know is I F^#% up and blow my engine beyond recognition. I will be saving hundreds of dollars replacing it verse the same situation with a B series or an H series. That is just my 2 cents yo!
     
  10. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    going boost, fine and well- you're adding a kit to it. you aren't really "building up" the d block. if needed, the turbo can be re-used elsewhere later on in life.

    But an all motor D-series, to me, is a waste of money. 1500 bucks in head work, cams, pistons, rods, etc etc, and you're still not making 140 whp
     
  11. knowledge

    knowledge Senior Member

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    I do agree with you on N/A D series. It really is a waste of money. BUt to hit the 300WHP mark on any D series you have to be running some kind of boost! or a big shot of nitrous. Lets say we could take completely identical cars. Put a boosted D series and a N/A B series in each. Both running at 300WHP. Who will win? Honestly I dont know, but man it would be a good race huh?
     
  12. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    not at all.

    the d-series will blow out axels and the input shaft bearing on the tranny before it hits the 60 foot clock :)

    b-series, hands down.
     
  13. knowledge

    knowledge Senior Member

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    Ahh I never said you couldn't upgrade the axles and shit yo. I do agree with you there though. The D series axles would obviously need to be upgraded. I am telling you B it would be quite close to call. Ok lets put it like this... A D16Z6 at 300WHP(obviously boosted) that woun't blow shit cause everything has been upgraded to handle the power. Against a N/A B16 at 300WHP in identical vehicles(also upgraded to handle the power)! I would be kinda close. I am not concidering where and when peak power is made, but yes that also has alot to do with it. Along with how long it made a good power band. I am also not concidering gear ratio's also. JUST THE BASICS HERE!
     
  14. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    B- A D series engine with piston/rod/cam upgrade and I/H/E will easily make more than 140whp. Trust me.

    knowledge- the ZC pistons can handle quite a bit of power. If you're going all motor, you'll be fine... if you're boosting to where your pistons will fail, you should be running forged units anyway. The ZC pistons and rods will hold 200-220hp (crank) with no problems at all, and that's about all you'll get from an all-motor build.
     
  15. sohcslammer

    sohcslammer Senior Member

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    :lol: You guys are fuggin hi-larious. Calesta, I agree - pistons/cams/springs/retainers/intake/header/exhaust in a D series wil for sure make @ 150+. (Especially at 12.3:1 cr) ;)

    B, this is NOT a 1500 dollar project...
    ZC Pistons - $100
    ZC Rods - $100
    Zex Cam - $300
    Valvetrain - $300
    ------
    $800 give or take

    I already have CAI, 4-1 ceramic, exhaust, chipped ECU, larger injectors, ect...
    I think this is a GREAT low-buck upgrade. Unfortunatly I threw the civic in the AutoTrader yesterday. I am starting over with a stripped down coupe. I AM going to throw the B18c in there because after all... GSR + Boost owns joo! (Yeah B, put it in already!) I would like to fuck wit' a D series someday tho. Just like knowledge said - it's all about seeing their faces when you tell 'em it's a sohc. :D
     
  16. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Well, it IS cheap, but you still want to get things like new rod bushings, new gaskets etc... but those aren't all that expensive. Mine will be somewhat cheaper (kinda):

    ZC pistons = free
    ZC rods = free
    Cam + valvetrain = $600 (don't know from where yet)
    Coat pistons and shot peen rods = $100
    Rings = $30
    Gaskets = $50 (probably)

    Got the I/H/E already, but I'm probably going to custom bend a 2.25" exhaust that runs down the driver's side of the car, and doesn't make a bunch of 90 degree angles around the passenger side. The cam and valvetrain will wait too- there's no need to do it all at once. I've got the VAFC already too, so I don't need to rewire for an OBD1 ECU. Fun fun fun.
     
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