Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by TurboMirage, Nov 7, 2006.
and classify which one i am
This is your right, that's your right! ------>
<------ This is your left... that's your left!
This is your right, that's your right! ------>
<------ You're gonna die. ------>
Mmmhmm, that's some good TV right there.
EDIT: Take this... World's Smallest Political Quiz
Left = Liberal
Right = Conservative
Far Left = Screaming Liberal (ex: Hilary Clinton, Howard Dean, Al Gore, Michael Moore, Ted Kennedy, etc.)
Far Right = Hardcore Conservative (ex: Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, Donny Rumsfeld, etc.)
Center = moderate (ex: John McCain)
Classify yourself accordingly!
welp, i'm a libertairan... lol
im answer f: none of the above...lol...i dunno...i just dont get into politics...but i guess i should...
ha ha ha nice.
that page times out.
Hey Brutal, nice to see you joining in.
Anyway, the Right and Left refer to two groups of people who try to get shit done in Government. First, I will explain WHY it's important that we have 2, and ONLY 2 parties.
Gun laws are important to me. I feel VERY Strongly that guns should be legal for all to own, shotguns above age 16 and handguns above 18 - regulated, and legal. Now, I also think it's important that Insurance companies in the US stop being so powerful, Rape victims have the ability to abort, and our Space program continues to get funded.
What do I do ? Well, in short - I prioritize . I research to find which candidate meets my personal agenda with what the US should do. But wait - A lot of those issues are the party polar opposites ! What to do ?
First idea is to look at a 3rd party . Let us say, Ralph Nader. So Ralph Nader in the Green party is voted into office by popular vote. Great ! So Ralph Nader gets in office, and changes his mind. What's to stop him from changing his mind ? What does he represent ? The Color Green ? Without that long-standing history of opinion and voting, "The Green Party" doesn't have to rightly stand with any one issue.
But the problem still exists: How do I represent my often polar beliefs ? I break them down:
Lighter Gun control
Funding for Space exploration
Responsible Abortion allowances
deregulation of Insurance Companies
Ok, so while the number of issues is split, the importance of those issues rests squarely on the shoulders of the Republican party. So next thing I do is examine Republican ideas against what kind of negative issues. If I feel that we don't belong in Iraq, and I feel strongly about it I may not want to vote Republican. Keep going back and forth like that until it becomes Granular.
Also, there are Political tests you can take, but they rank me mostly as a moderate Democrat because I am Pro-Abortion. Here are some of the polar issues:
If you are Republican these are the polarizing ideals (If you disagree with the party on even one issue, you're ousted, these are the Far-Right ideals):
Guns should be banned
Abortion should be legal
We should not be in Iraq for any reason
The polarizing Democrat points are similar (But Converse):
2nd Amendment should NEVER be touched
We belong in Iraq (Joe Lieberman said this, and was ousted from the party)
Abortion should not be allowed
If you state any of those, the party won't have you. Since I'm pro-gun and pro abortion, neither party would have me. I'm simply care less about Abortion than I do Guns so I hit the Republican side.
So Two partys are important because it divides arguments into two nicely spaced groups. The US party system represents a basically 50/50 split of the US, which is why our races are so goddam close. And that's GREAT. Canada, New Zealand, Australia, even the UK allow many parties to enter government, and instead of a 50/50 split, you wind up with a 20/10/2/18/43/7 type of split - And nothing ever gets done.
So in review, with a two-party system most of everyone's opinions are represented in such a way that they can pair up their opinions with other like opinions. When you introduce a 3rd party, they can get into power and answer to no one.
As an example, Bush has said before that he believes in Stem Cell research. He believes in Young stem cell research from In vitro farms. But, he was voted in primarily from the far right and religious groups - He must represent the people that voted him in. (Those were about his exact words)
Without that backing, then he change his opinion and stance on issues in a heartbeat.
Coming soon: Part 2 - What am I ?
right and left are ideal patterns, the right favors moral choices usually based loosely on religion (like abortion/gay marriage is bad), the left favors greater freedom of morality questioning things like capitol punishment and other conservative philosophies.
Economically a "right winger" believes in a free market system, in it's purest sense supply and demand drive the economic engine and little else. "Lefties" generally favor tariffs on foreign trade, higher taxes on the upper 10% of income earning, and often subsidizes of the poorer populous of America.
The plus side of the Rights economic model is that all business flourishes and small business owners (middle class) do very well, the downside is that so does corporate America.
The plus side of the Lefts economic model is that the system was designed to level the playing field on many levels, this often benefits low/middle class employees. Unfortunately the increase in business tax often hurts middle class small business owners, who are by no means rich. And if left unchecked, there terrif and tax system would raise the cost of living in American for everyone. My personal least favorite part of the Left economic model is that it moves the country towards socialism (Nazi Germany without the genocide), and many Americans gain a sense of entitlement toward financial incentives which are supposed to be temporary (welfare, social security)
In the end neither ideal system works 100% of the time, I am an Independant Moderate Conservative...
yeah. im definately independent.
Part2: What am I ?
This is an important question, but to keep the interest level high, I'll give you all a charge:
The Far Right is just as bad as the Far Left. Check out Free Republic | latest articles when you get a chance . A lot of what they say is very reasonable. The Far Right on that site tends to go off on rightist religious rants - About how God wills our Troops to succeed in Iraq, how anyone that disagrees with them (Europe, the UN, Democrats, etc) are sent from hell. Sometimes they'll give bible quotes. This is just as bad as the Islamic extremists. All they do is substitute "Allah" for "God" and the diatribes are verbatim. Yes, the Far political (Or extremist view) is ignorant and tends to make no sense.
I attack the Far Left because they are cartoonishly loony. Last years State of the Union address proved that. They applauded not when Bush said "My healthcare plan was rejected" but when he said "Any healthcare plan was rejected". They hooted like monkeys. The Far Right tends to believe that God has any part in what we do, and tends to seek justification. The Far Left is more convinced that a secret society of powerful families brought down the Twin Towers.
So with that balance in place, for the newly initiated, it's important to look at the lighter side of politics first before worrying about the extremists. Look towards things that don't make the news:
Who believes in my ideas of research and research grants ?
Who is supporting the Public Schools in a manner that I appreciate ?
Who is going to ban my hobby ? (Fishing, offroading, car modification, etc)
Who has a stronger Tax plan ? Who has a stronger overall budget ?
Who is going to make my locale better ?
Before you go into things like:
Who thinks that God actually guides missiles?
Why is Halliburton winning so many contracts ?
Is George Bush the Devil ?
Because if you look at and consider the latter arguments, you're a loony.
Now I'm pretty far off to the right because I've been doing this for a long time. In fact , I share much of what the extremist Right has to say - with only the Religion part being the exception. that makes me deeply entrenched in this party ,but I draw a line at the lunacy. Perhaps one day I'll turn to the Church and Jesus for my own reasons, and somehow the Right will make sense to me totally. This has happened to millions of americans already. I know some very reasonable people who do believe that there is a God, yadda yadda.
But don't think that the Left is anti-religion. Most of the Left is Christian or Catholic as well. They just don't base most of their decisions on it (Because their decisions go against what the church decrees)
Was that fun ? Celerity just admitted that the Far Right is just as lunatic as the Far left !
So the question: What do you belong to ?
That's easy. Take a look at the important things in your life and size it against what the party platforms are. For the most part, you'll find that you fit nicely within one party or the other. If you have a counter-party belief (Like me and Abortion) then you'll still find that a lot of your beliefs are easily fit within one or the other still.
Then take a look at the people that represent your opinions . In your case, your representatives can be found in the Kennedies, Kerry, Romney, and a slew of far-left loonies. Utah can be found in a slew of far-right loonies.
As far as being Libertarian, There are some really good representatives of Libertarianism. Neil Boortz, John Stossel just to name a few. It's a shame because these people are plain-sense, outspoken and intelligent. For them to become a party of power they would need to win the hearts of over a billion people. Good luck to them on that. Until then, I have to vote for the congress that's currently in power.
So to recap:
Align yourself with a third party, and you're letting someone into office that doesn't really represent anything - or to say, he represents what he wants to represent that day.
Align yourself with the Right and you're on the side of the Religious Extremists
Align yourself with the Left and you're on the side of the Lunatics that can't be reasoned with who hold the most insane concepts as correct.
For further reading:
On the Right: Free Republic | latest articles, "Godless" by Anne Coulter
On the Left: MoveOn.org: Democracy in Action, "Soulless" by Susan Estrich
These are Equal sites and books - exactly as foaming-in-the-mouth as the other.
These sweeping generalizations wont help anyone determine "what party they belong to" or who they should vote for.
And how does Ralph Nader not have valid stances? He doesn't change his mind that often, and he doesn't need some "party" to make up his mind for him. Do the Republicans represent Elephants? Dem's donkey's? WTF. Just because there's no history of their voting doesn't mean they are inept to serve.
Definition of left/right:
1. of, pertaining to, or located on or near the side of a person or thing that is turned toward the west or east when the subject is facing north.
2. an outdated, inadequate, deceptive, sometimes derogatory means for describing ones political affiliations.
This dumbed down version of politics that most Americans use is far too simple to be of any use. Nearly all political issues are far more complicated than 'you either think this or you think the opposite', and these polarizing 'left' and 'right' ideas not only enable such thinking, they reinforce it.
Just as Celerity said, neither party would want to have him for a candidate, for the sole reason of having his own well-thought-out opinions. Political parties put our leaders into a box, forcing them into actions they would not otherwise take.
George Washington warned the nation about this very thing in his farewell speech. At the time, there were no Republicans, no Democrats. Just leaders from each state representing their people. The political 'parties' were just forming when he was leaving office and he saw them for what they are; A means to help a select group of people over that of another. Exactly what Washington had fought a revolution against just years earlier. In his speech, he warned that political parties could tear the nation in two, that they were a threat to the very existence of the country. He saw his nations leaders already trying to put themselves into boxes:
I want to abolish every political party. Make every elected official just that, an elected official. No party, no 'sides', no bias, just people working for what's best for the people they represent, and for their nation.
Just the way it was meant to be.
im with dark
i took a CNN.com quiz...
CNN.com - Elections 2006
im far left on economy and moral issues, slight left on iraq and terrorism, and slight right on immigration.
Libertarian according to the quiz.
I define myself as a liberal.
Stay out of my life.
Stay out of my bedroom.
Stay out of the constitution. (that means leave the 2nd alone ya far lefties!)
Keep your laws off other's bodies. (If you have a dick between your legs, you have NO right to decide womens' issues such as abortion)
Stop illegal immigration *AND* outsourcing. (The Right loves to ignore outsourcing, has something to do with less taxes)
Fund the space program to its fullest. (With the money spent in Iraq, we could have put a 50 foot solid gold statue of Dick Cheney in orbit around Mars)
SEPERATE RELIGION AND POLITICS COMPLETELY.
Universal healthcare. If any country needs it, it's us.
Much, much better education in this country.
Fully back stem cell research and other scientific research.
I'll post more as they pop up in my head.
we could have built the space elevator...
nice, I encourage everyone to take this and post there's it would be interesting, I'll go first
What I see with that quiz is simple: DO you support Iraq? Do you support Abortion ? Do you think we should build a wall along Mexico ?
These are the only 3 questions that this quiz needs. Now "Building a wall" is a republican idea, but it's not a George Bush idea. That's the difference.
I call shenanigans on the quiz.
id like to build that wall
Separate names with a comma.