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Speed:Cost

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by jimboburgess, Jun 28, 2005.

  1. jimboburgess

    jimboburgess Go fast, Go Cheap

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    i realize that turbo charging is the fastest way to get a fast car.
    I have tons of time and resources but no money to work on my car.
    Is it worthwhile to start building to engine for a turbo a long way down the road, or should i just build it N/A. If i build the engine N/A how difficult/costly would it be to switch to turbo.
    Is it possible to run low boost in a high compression engine and keep engine durability?
    Is it better to just build all high compression or all turbo?
    What is possible with an all motor application 1/4 times ets and such.
     
  2. wanderinman

    wanderinman Senior Member

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    You can run boost on a high compression motor reliably no problem... just get a GOOOOOD tuner. A properly tuned motor will run good regardless of your setup.
     
  3. jimboburgess

    jimboburgess Go fast, Go Cheap

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    anyone know a good tuner in PA? and what differs between turbo and non-turbo cams?
     
  4. wanderinman

    wanderinman Senior Member

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    From what I've read the turbo cams tend to be a lot closer... if not identical... to a stock cam profile, the NA cams tend to have much larger and more agressive lobes to compensate for the lack of boost.

    I am not sure about turbo's, but I know on a honda motor Jackson Racing actually lost horsepower going to a more agressive cam on their supercharged motor.
     
  5. Pewble

    Pewble Senior Member

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    If you run boost on a high compression setup you can only run a small amount of boost. you can build a high compression motor and still go fast. if you build for a lot of boost you want to drop compression and get stronger engine components namely sleeves/rods/pistons. you also want to have larger injectors and tune the engine quite a bit. high compression build is cheaper than turbo buildups...
    if you dont have a lot of money to spend i recommend cams/valvesprings, port the engine... cylinder head work is cheaper than bottom end work.
     
  6. wanderinman

    wanderinman Senior Member

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    pretty much no. To get the power of even a lightly boosted stock motor, you have to do extensive AND expensive internal work to your motor. Unless you are going wild with your turbo setup, it will generally net you more HP/$ than an NA build, hands down.



    That right there will run you around $750-$1000 depending on what you spend for port work, and assuming you install all the stuff yourself. Which for the same price a halfway decent homemade turbo setup can be pieced together.



    Your going to want new pistons and rods for your NA build anyways, and your dont have to sleeve a block if your tuned right and stay at factory bore. I think I've read on here that people have made 300HP on stock blocks, and pissedoffsol is always preaching that.



    Tuning YES, always, any motor. As for the injectors... the injectors match your HP rating... GAS=POWER, so a 200HP boosted motor will need just as much gas as a 200HP NA motor, give or take a little




    Basically, if you dont have a lot of money to spend, try and leave your engine alone, because things go wrong and things go wrong expensively when your dealing with a motor. A homemade turbo setup tuned properly will allow you to leave all the internals alone, and will still net you decent gains. Check it out.
     
  7. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    evans tuning in easton pa is where i'd go.

    but IMO, build it for the long time goal. building it for a short term goal will only end up making you waste money and get you to the end result slower.

    IMO, go 9.5:1 pistons.
    still fine for na, and will take a decent amount of boost as well
     
  8. 2fastaccord

    2fastaccord Senior Member

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    If you are a baller and you just insist on going N/A go for it. However, if you want to be faster w/o going broke turbo the mother! :D
     
  9. DesertNightEagle

    DesertNightEagle Senior Member

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    radical N/A cams, for example crower stage 3's, have more overlap, high amount of overlap is bad on turbo setups. engine will detonate pretty quick.
     
  10. CiViC_SOHC

    CiViC_SOHC Senior Member

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    you can run up to 11 PSI on stock internals with a properly TUNED car....the tuning part is were most people fuck up...honestly it would be cheaper to get a homemade turbo due to the fact if you want a N/A you need to bore your engine over and get some interal work...turbos you can leave internals stock just make sure you have uberdata or crome and have a good dyno! PM if you need any other questions answered about turbos...I have been studying on them for about 2 weeks straight now lol
     
  11. jimboburgess

    jimboburgess Go fast, Go Cheap

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    so i guess the plan is bolt a turbo up to the motor.
    everyone always says build the engine first, do i have to?
    couldn't i just run low boost, right.
    where do i find this uberdata? is it like hondata? i looked that up and for a boost program it is like $400!
     
  12. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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    uberdata is free, brotha. PGMFI.org Grassroots Baby!
    Look into Crome as well, both are well developed programs. Hondata is pretty much a commercialized version of those programs.
     
  13. jdm2gen03

    jdm2gen03 Senior Member

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    ok depending on the motor and wat turbo your running is the factor on how much boost your gonna push. because 10 psi on a t61 and 10 psi on a t3 are 2 totally differnt things. so the whole 11 psi on a stock block is wrong.... it all comes down to the hp a stock block can hold. b-series motors i would say with stock internals could reliable push 275 ish hp to the wheels and then not totally sure on d-series but i would say like 200 or 220 with keepin the internals stock.
     
  14. PhyRe

    PhyRe Senior Member

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    someone already said it but yeah "n/a is the expencive way to go slow"
    im guessing this would be a d series? if so this is the best platform for a budget turbo setup. go to the junk yard and find a dsm(like a talon, eclipes, lazer) take the turbo(t25) injectors(450cc) bov, smic, and what ever piping you can. if you have a pick and pull it will be around 300 depending on the place but id say that a high price. then while your there grab an hf mani from a 88-91 civic hf,std and there is one other but i dont remeber. get an adaper plate or weld together get an safc and little things like oil lines and bullshit piping and then boost your way around town. that whole set up i would say tops is going to run you $500 and depending oon you motor should put you in the 170-200hp range. i love d series.
     
  15. jimboburgess

    jimboburgess Go fast, Go Cheap

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    I b18b in my civic, I could get all that stuff from the dsm really cheaply, really cheaply! I think i will try that. any second opinion? Uberdata is awesome!


    Will the injectors fit? what is the smic?
     
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