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Supercharger Time...Turbo?

Discussion in 'Forced Induction' started by 4DRB16A, Oct 4, 2005.

  1. 4DRB16A

    4DRB16A Senior Member

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    Ive have been debating on getting a SC ever since I got my swap. I heard that a SC is better for the B16A due b/c you will be quicker off the line due to turbo having to spool up. So I want something fast off the line and an everyday driver. I am pointing towards the jackson SC but I dont know which one will work for my obd0 B16A motor in my 91 civic. I was thinking I could get one for the 99 B16A2 and it would work fine. Any suggestions as to what mods or things I should do to my car before I decided to bolt on a supercharger?

    Thanks alot!!

    P.S. Would this be something that a honda noob like myself could install in my garage or should I take it to a shop to have it installed and if so around how much would they charge?
     
  2. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    a properly sized turbo will make more overall power than any roots-style supercharger will. not just peak either. total area under the curve. the 1st derrivative, if you've taken calculus.

    if you want something fast off the line, buy a v8. seriously. no matter what you do to the honda motor, its power band will always be more effective from 4k to 8k give or take.

    so, for those 1.5 seconds or less in 1st gear under 4k is the ONLY time the supercharger will have an advantage of making more power. and so, you bake the tires off instead of hooking up.

    anyway, the 99 blower will bolt on to the head, but thats about it. a lot of things are different on the intake manifold side of things between the two motors. exactly what will need to be changed or modded, i don't know. measure clearence too.. the jasckson is longer than the stock IM, so you might have firewall clearence issues.
     
  3. 4DRB16A

    4DRB16A Senior Member

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    Can you point me in the right direction of a good reasonably priced turbo kit that includes everything that I need?

    Thanks!


    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Drag-Turbo-...spagenameZWD10V


    So I would probably be expecting to pay around 3k for the kit?
     
  4. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    don't get a kit. the parts are generally crap, and you can piece together your own for cheaper price. the "fuel management" they come with is a freakin joke. there's no good reason to buy a mass-produced kit.

    the hardest part is the piping and the manifold.

    do a search in this forum... theres 100's of topics about DIY turbo kits and piecing together a kit.

    for the turbo, i'd recommend a t3/t04e 57 trim .63 a/r for your b16.
     
  5. 4DRB16A

    4DRB16A Senior Member

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    I already have a walbro 255 fuel pump what other things would you recommend before I install a turbo kit?

    P.S. When I get off work I am going to search for diy turbo.

    Is it hard to put together a turbo kit? I am pretty good at following directions.

    Thank you sol [​IMG]
     
  6. 92civicb18b1

    92civicb18b1 The Trisexual

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    it's pretty simple.

    I agree with B in every aspect. That would be a very sufficient turbo, I would have recommended something very similar.

    How much power are you looking for?
     
  7. 4DRB16A

    4DRB16A Senior Member

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    Not really looking for a certain number of hp to reach but it would be nice to get around 200 hp and around 140 tq if possible.
     
  8. 92civicb18b1

    92civicb18b1 The Trisexual

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    More than possible. If you tune to a conservative 8#'s you should be a decent amount over 200 hp.
     
  9. kyleirwin

    kyleirwin Retired OG

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    8#'s? was that just a typo supposed to be #'s?
     
  10. 92civicb18b1

    92civicb18b1 The Trisexual

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    no

    8#'s

    8 pounds

    8 lbs.

    8 psi


    8 psi of boost should put him over 200 hp.
     
  11. kyleirwin

    kyleirwin Retired OG

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  12. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    yeah, 200 is more than possible. The only difficult part of the DIY job is the piping. There are a lot of places (i recently found out) that will do the piping for about 250-300. You can also find a piping kit on ebay for like 330+ shipping.

    Everything else but tuning is pretty straight forward. If youve ever changed a head gasket or something similar, this should be a walk in the park.
     
  13. 92civicb18b1

    92civicb18b1 The Trisexual

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    np...


    just had to repeat it.

    Fuel management is going to be the most important part of the setup.

    I didn't think the IC piping was that hard.

    Kteller.com and a pipe cut is all you need.
     
  14. PhyRe

    PhyRe Senior Member

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    fuel is key. but your crazy if you pay that much for piping. tunertoys has a kit on ebay and their site for around 100. they also have a diy log mani for b series for about 100. check out homemadeturbo.com for all your diy needs.
     
  15. kingmarc63

    kingmarc63 Senior Member

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    Since you will always get anti supercharger info here, I will be the only pro supercharger person.
    Here is some info on my car : 1988 honda crx si (full interior) with a b18c1 and intercooled JRSC

    http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/marcayla2002/album?.dir=/ef8d
    Th car looks ghetto so I have to do a lot of coaxing to get corvettes ect. to bite
    Mods:
    88 crx si
    b18c1
    w/ JRSC at 11psi
    lht intercooler
    50 shot zex nitrous (dry)
    je pistons
    je rings
    eagle rods
    acl bearings
    type r throttle body
    type r oil pump
    forged eagle crank
    endyn catch can
    stock ignition system
    hondata s200b
    2.25/2.5 inch exhaust
    intake (k&n air filter)
    kamikaze header
    90 ls tranny (w/ 190k miles)
    jim fab traction bar
    tokico illumina
    nuespeed springs
    integra rear disc conversion
    Dyno: 250hp 190tq before dry shot (conservative tune 11.8-12.0:1 AFR)

    past quarter time: 2.2 60ft ,13.4 at 116mph (kelly tires+ shitty tune)
    present quarter Time:1.9 60ft, 12.1 at 115mph m&H drag tires and tune from SUPRDAVE AT WHIPFACTORY).
    I still get 29mpg on the hwy
    AND I thought I needed a turbo to go this quick. A buddy of mine with a h22a peakboost turbo kit civic pitting down 338hp and 256tq (8psi )only managed 13.00 at 112mph eith a 2.1 60ft on the same day.

    Don't get me wrong this exact setup will cost you a pretty penny. I however got deals on everything. My water to air intercooler cost me $450 but cost $1100 new. My motor cost me $2200 with a lsd gsr tranny that i resold for $800. Turbo WILL give you a BIGGER bang for the buck. However, it is way cool to say to say you smoked a z06 vette and when he pops your hood he can't find a snail and some people even overlook the superchager since its not normal in the honda community. I realize i don't need a ton of hp to go fast and the daily driveability/streetability on my supercharger car will beats most if not all turbo cars around here. My set up is tuned to were i can be cruising at 6000 rpm at 50% throttle and not be in vtec (even though hondata has it set at 3000 prm), no boost or no nitrous(zex). As soon as i floor it vtec and boost kicks in like a hundred bitch slap from you mother and my little 50 shot is for little added fun.

    I will be heading to the track next week after my 3 inch exhaust and cam gears and a retune. I gaurantee you guys a 11 sec time slip. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
     
  16. B16CRX

    B16CRX Senior Member

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    A turbo Kit is the easiest thing to put together. Go to www.stealthmode.com for oil lines. Before you buy your oil lines find out what turbo you wants. Dont get somethign overly large like a precision SC61. A T3 .60/.63 will do fine Slightly larger is fine as well, but spool up will be longer. "Turbo lag" is a myth created by people who are too damn anal about turbos and try to scare peopl eaway from them. You dont even notice it when you get on it in 1st. Which is the only time you should be gettign on it (at a track).

    Find yourself a good intercooler. Do some research on tube and fin and Bar and plate designs. Bar and plates are more efficient, but slightly heavier. Some T&F are just as efficient as B&P.

    Buy some aluminum pipes or stainless steel pipes for the intercooler piping. Have a professional weld these together for you. They willl need to have your car to do this. Go ahead and take your bumper off for them to do it. Before you even bring it to them, mount your FMIC so you can adjust your bumper how you need to (cut out pieces).

    Choose a Blow Off Valve. blow off valves release boost pressures between shifts so you dont get the pressure slamming back into the turbo causing compressot surge. This can eff your turbo and motor up.

    Get yourself a 2.75-3" exhaust. the larger teh exhaust teh quicker the spool. I got my exhaust from www.kteller.com I bought a mild steel kit for my car 3" and one resonator. Sounds great and spools fairly quickly. Buy flanges for the downpipe/tuebo and have the shop that does your intercooler piping make your downpipe as well.

    If the turbo you choose is an actuator style. then you wont have to worry about this step:
    Choose a good external wastegate for your turbo. Tial makes good ones. Stay away from teh 35mm though. they are just a watse of money. for the same price you can have a 38mm and it will perform better. I am using a SSAC 38mm wastegate right now, and I dont have any problems with it. It is identicle to teh tial model. DONT GET A DELTAGATE. they suck at regulating boost pressures.

    Buy a good manifold. Stay away from ssautochrome manifolds. they are complete shit. Blox makes a good design log style manifold. or you can go with LoveFab. He makes good manifolds and has great customer service as well. For an external wastegate, the ideal location is on the collector so it releases exhaust from all 4 ports instead of just one or two.

    Buy a boost gauge. You will need this to know what PSI you are running.

    I wouldnt waste my time with an A/F gauge unless I had a wideband o2 sensor hooked up.

    Buy an EGT gauge. Put the probe on the third runner no more than 2" away from teh head.

    Buy some sort of Boost controller, if you plan to run more PSI than what the spring in your wastegate is set for. I swear by manual boost controllers. the TurboXS dual stage is great. Stay away from electronic ones. When they work, they work well, but half the time they dont work. Piles of shit imo.

    Dont forget about engine management. Stay away from FMUs. they arent very reliable beyond 6 psi or so. If you have the obd0 B16A swap, then you probably have a PR3 ECU. If that's the case go to www.forum.pgmfi.org and go to the BRE forum and read up on it. I am using it to control my timing, ignition and fuel maps and I couldnt be happier with the results.

    You will need larger injectors depending on the size turbo and how much boost you intend to run. I'm running DSM 450cc blue tops in my crx with b16 swap with a T3 .48/.60 at 12 psi and it is fine. I woudnt go past 12 psi on a stock B16 though. 12 sometiems scares me on this thing(stock motor).

    You will also need a larger MAP sensor. you can get the motorola 2.5bar or a GM 2 bar or GM 3 bar. I am using a GM 2 bar. it is ok up to about 16 psi I think. Then you will get a cel and limp mode.

    Do some research on all the things I have mentioned so far. I pieced my entire kit together for under 2K and thats even with buying new motor mounts for close to $400. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
     
  17. DelSlo

    DelSlo Senior Member

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    great info, do have a link for "lovefab" for manifolds dude?? id like to check this guy out if hes got a good customer service record, looking for a good guy to use exclusively in my shop! :)
     
  18. B16CRX

    B16CRX Senior Member

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    His name is Cody Loveland. This is his website: http://www.lovefabinc.com/
     
  19. Prowler

    Prowler Super Moderator

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