Supplements
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Originally posted by tab+Aug 11 2004, 11:26 PM-->@Aug 11 2004, 08:42 PM
Enzite
[post=375647]Quoted post[/post]
huh? :unsure:
[post=375705]Quoted post[/post]
youre kidding right ... you havent seen or heard any of the comertials for Enzyte "the one a day caplet for natural male enhancement"
what fuckin rock have you been living under
liquid00meth
Senior Member
Do some research dude. Creatine does not cause an insulin spike. You induce the insulin spike in order to accelerate creatine absorption. Without raised levels of insulin, your body doesn't absorb all the creatine it possibly could. Why do you think people take it with Grape Juice? The highest natural Fructose (fruit sugar) content.
And creatine doesn't induce any sort of anabolic state. All it does is help supply your muscles with more energy, so you can do more intense exercise without getting tired. It has nothing to do with "anabolic" anything. Anabolic means cell production. Creatine has nothing to do with it. And the "immediate" results people usually see is just a size effect of muscles retaining water.
You should stop telling people what to do, immediately. Because you don't know shit.
Information for the rest:
Judging by the level of training people are talking about, all you want (if anything) to take is:
1.) Whey protein before you goto sleep
2.) A well balanced diet with at least 100 grams of protein (unless your going for all mass, then it's up to 150 or 200)
3.) Creatine if your going for mass and strength. 3-5g taken with grape juice and a small serving of carbs (bread, potato) before and after you lift.
Take a vitamin with a meal, eat from all the food groups. This is by far the best support to a good lifting program.
Everything else is pretty marginal unless you get into steroids or other some other stuff that is way too expensive for normal people right now.
cycloneb18c3
Senior Member
I take vitamin E200 from GNC because i got blood test for work and they said my vitamin e was low and to start taking the supplement. so i did, and it made me lose weight, so i havent taken them in like 2 weeks, and Im slowly gaining my weight back.
1) read my post again.....did I say that Creatine induced any sort of Anabolism? NO. Go ahead....read it...
2) Most people take creatine with something high in Dextrose or maltodextrin (being the fastest), thus causing a huge INSULIN SPIKE. True, creatine by itself does not create the spike, but when was the last time you took a spoon of creatine without any mix? You do not want that many insulin spikes, it will hurt your insulin sensitivity. The concept of insulin levels needing to be high to ingest creatine has to do with the SPEED at which the creatine is processed. It is a cumulative process, so what's the hurry? If anything, take it with water.
3) "fructose" as you said... uses a NON insulin dependent pathway, and tops off liver glycogen...this is not what you want. You want all metabolic pathways leading toward muscle glycogen uptake. Creatine was never designed to be absorbed quickly, people who take it frequently with fruit juices (including your precious grape juice) are doing more harm than good. Having your insulin levels spike all over the place, as I said, destroys you insulin sensivity. And what is the good in taking creatine if you are not able to effectively absorb it anymore because your a moron.
As for the rest of your post, I pretty much agree with you (except for the creatine part of course, there is nothing you can accomplish with creatine that you can't with the addition of more carbs). People looking to gain mass should try and get one gram of protein per pound of body weight. But ya, the rest of your post I agree with.
As for me needing to stop telling people what to do cuz I dont know shit? Thats pretty harsh dude. Seems I know just as much about this topic as you do. So for that, just a reminder for you:
"More glutamine means faster recovery and stroger immune system. What's so useless about that?"
You're joking right? Find one study that proves that.
Now look at the past 20 years of study about creatine and tell me what it proves.
As far as creatine being a supplement for people who can't get their calorie intake up...stfu if you dont know what you're talking about, if you're in a calorie deficit you're going to loss weight regardless of whether or not you're taking creatine its just basic science. Caloric intake has nothing to do with creatine whatsoever, so for you to mention them in the same sentence means you really dont have an understanding of it at all.
As far as the ON 100% Whey, I took that for awhile and I would consider that the best Whey protein for the price. (I always get the 10lb bag, and it mixes when rather than clumping like the cheap shit...plus it tastes good to boot)
As far as the apple juice and creatine...thats a no no. They've found that acidity in fruit juices breaks down the creatine and basically renders it useless. The old school way to take it was with a fruit juice but now for best results they recommend things less acidic
You're joking right? Find one study that proves that.
Now look at the past 20 years of study about creatine and tell me what it proves.
As far as creatine being a supplement for people who can't get their calorie intake up...stfu if you dont know what you're talking about, if you're in a calorie deficit you're going to loss weight regardless of whether or not you're taking creatine its just basic science. Caloric intake has nothing to do with creatine whatsoever, so for you to mention them in the same sentence means you really dont have an understanding of it at all.
As far as the ON 100% Whey, I took that for awhile and I would consider that the best Whey protein for the price. (I always get the 10lb bag, and it mixes when rather than clumping like the cheap shit...plus it tastes good to boot)
As far as the apple juice and creatine...thats a no no. They've found that acidity in fruit juices breaks down the creatine and basically renders it useless. The old school way to take it was with a fruit juice but now for best results they recommend things less acidic
Studies that prove my point on L-Glutamine? Sure.....here's one to start. You can contact the source information if you'd like as well, I'll provide the contact info for you.
L-glutamine is the most prevalent amino acid in the bloodstream and because human cells readily synthesize it, is usually considered a non-essential amino acid. It is found in high concentration in skeletal muscle, lung, liver, brain, and stomach tissue. Skeletal muscle contains the greatest intracellular concentration of glutamine, comprising up to 60 percent of total body glutamine stores, and is considered the primary storage depot and exporter of glutamine to other tissues. Under certain pathological circumstances the body's tissues need more glutamine than the amount supplied by diet and biosynthesis. During catabolic stress intracellular glutamine levels can drop more than 50 percent, and it is under these circumstances that supplemental glutamine becomes necessary.1 In times of metabolic stress, glutamine is released into circulation, where it is transported to the tissue in need. Intracellular skeletal muscle glutamine concentration is affected by various insults, including injury, sepsis, prolonged stress, starvation, and the use of glucocorticoids. Therefore, glutamine has been re-classified as a conditionally essential amino acid. Research demonstrates glutamine supplementation may be beneficial when added to total parenteral nutrition (TPN) for surgery, trauma, and cancer patients. In addition, evidence suggests it may provide benefit for certain gastrointestinal conditions, wound healing, critically ill neonates, HIV/AIDS patients, immune enhancement in endurance athletes, and prevention of complications associated with chemotherapy, radiation, and bone marrow transplant.1,2
L-glutamine accounts for 30-35 percent of the amino acid nitrogen in the plasma. It contains two ammonia groups, one from its precursor, glutamate, and the other from free ammonia in the bloodstream. One of glutamine's roles is to protect the body from high levels of ammonia by acting as a "nitrogen shuttle." Thus, glutamine can act as a buffer, accepting, then releasing excess ammonia when needed to form other amino acids, amino sugars, nucleotides, and urea. This capacity to accept and donate nitrogen makes glutamine the major vehicle for nitrogen transfer among tissues. Glutamine is one of the three amino acids involved in glutathione synthesis. Glutathione, an important intracellular antioxidant and hepatic detoxifier, is comprised of glutamic acid, cysteine, and glycine.1,2
Footnotes and sources:
1. Souba WW. Glutamine Physiology, Biochemistry, and Nutrition in Critical Illness. Austin, TX: R.G. Landes Co.; 1992.
2. Askanazi J, Carpenter YA, Michelsen CB, et al. Muscle and plasma amino acids following injury: Influence of intercurrent infection. Ann Surg 1980;192:78-85.
Contact info:
Head Office
Thorne Research, Inc.
P.O. Box 25
Dover, ID 83825
USA
Want more sources? Just say the word. That took me like 2 seconds to find.
As far as the creatine goes.....let me ask a basic question.....Why do you take creatine anyways?
Calories=(Energy)
Creatine = (Energy)
How do I not know what I'm talking about?
Bodybuilders have gone for YEARS without the stuff. It's not an essential supplement to building muscle. With the amount of protein and meat you'd be eating on a high-protein diet, your body already makes enough of it. You dont need it.
If you take it......cool....whatever. If you don't .....cool.....whatever......
Good conversations though, all of us!
edit* Good call on the fruit juice breaking down the creatine though....not alot of people know that.
Creatine has nothing to do with calories, NOTHING whatsoever so dont compare.
Whether you're in a calorie deficit or are taking in an abundance of calories doesnt matter in terms of creatine usage. It will work better if you're taking in more calories because anything works that way. You take roids and dont take in calories and you're not growing, growth is directly related to calorie intake. If you're in a deficit = loss of mass, abundance = gain mass and if you're taking in as much as you're burning you're staying the same weight.
Creatine just basically aids in the sliding filament theory as I said, it allows creatine phosphate to be more abundant and easier excess allowing for longer workouts consisting of increased weight...in lamens terms.
As for the glutamine study, it says what glutamine does naturally in the body not how well the supplement itself works and thats what we're talking about.
I'm a big fan of eating lots of lean food...if you have trouble taking in that many calories then take it in liquid form, i.e., protein shake or weight gainer and lift progessively heavier everytime you workout. That simple.
If you're wondering, I do all sorts of programs like HST, german volume training, traditional lifting splits, etc., etc.
Whether you're in a calorie deficit or are taking in an abundance of calories doesnt matter in terms of creatine usage. It will work better if you're taking in more calories because anything works that way. You take roids and dont take in calories and you're not growing, growth is directly related to calorie intake. If you're in a deficit = loss of mass, abundance = gain mass and if you're taking in as much as you're burning you're staying the same weight.
Creatine just basically aids in the sliding filament theory as I said, it allows creatine phosphate to be more abundant and easier excess allowing for longer workouts consisting of increased weight...in lamens terms.
As for the glutamine study, it says what glutamine does naturally in the body not how well the supplement itself works and thats what we're talking about.
I'm a big fan of eating lots of lean food...if you have trouble taking in that many calories then take it in liquid form, i.e., protein shake or weight gainer and lift progessively heavier everytime you workout. That simple.
If you're wondering, I do all sorts of programs like HST, german volume training, traditional lifting splits, etc., etc.
I wanna see some pictures of you guys. No I'm not homo, I just like to see results for knowledge. For knowing a lot of shit, yo uguys better be cut, and huge.
It says on the package of my creatine monohydrate to take it with a simple carb. So I do myself, I put it in water/juice, and I eat an banana or some fruit.
Since I stopped taking creatine and have been off my cycle for the last 3 weeks, I did see a 1/2 inch loss on my arm size and I do seem to tire a lot faster in my workouts.....But I also seem more defined at the same time.....
Personally I thought glutamine was a good natural anti-catalyst meaning your muscles didn't break down as much during cardio, meaning you didn't lose muscle as much working out hard, making it so you can lose more fat, making it safer to go longer in cardio workouts.
Or atleast this is why I spend 20 a month on it for....
It says on the package of my creatine monohydrate to take it with a simple carb. So I do myself, I put it in water/juice, and I eat an banana or some fruit.
Since I stopped taking creatine and have been off my cycle for the last 3 weeks, I did see a 1/2 inch loss on my arm size and I do seem to tire a lot faster in my workouts.....But I also seem more defined at the same time.....
Personally I thought glutamine was a good natural anti-catalyst meaning your muscles didn't break down as much during cardio, meaning you didn't lose muscle as much working out hard, making it so you can lose more fat, making it safer to go longer in cardio workouts.
Or atleast this is why I spend 20 a month on it for....
importjdmcivic
Its the NUGE!
Back like 3 years ago I took Creatine Monohydrate for football...i took it for about 3 months but I started feeling this pain in the area of my kidneys and got kinda scared about it....so I stopped...I guess I'm just a big puss :sad: But whatever, I don't play football anymore so it doesn't really matter, I keep in shape.
My thoughts exactly.
I'd take creatine, but I'm not at that point yet. I'm still making good gains weekly. And I've posted pics of myself for the world to oogle and make fun of. I don't mind.
I'm also taking glutamine under the assumption that it helps you retain more muscle mass during cardio. Since I'm doing cardio four times a week, this seems pretty logical to take.
I'd like to get cut before I cycle up for size. Weight training can be used as cardio, but the pace is tough to keep up on unless you utilize circuit training. I've found that's hard to do at my local gym, since lazy people hang out on the machines.(I use everything)
Haha yes these pics are hosted on an adult site but no if you care to look up the link the main pic isn't my face or body.
http://www.ratemyfaceadult.com/mpictures/rpn55108.jpg
http://www.ratemyfaceadult.com/mpictures/rpn55109.jpg
http://www.ratemyfaceadult.com/mpictures/rpn52743.jpg
http://www.ratemyfaceadult.com/mpictures/rpn52744.jpg
I have a small frame. 5'7-5'8 with girl shoulders. About 145lbs when I'm lean.
Max bench - 205lbs
Max squat - 315+
Max deadlift - 275+
*edit - on second thought I linked them so not all you guys have to see them, but i know all you homo butts are going to click the links.
http://www.ratemyfaceadult.com/mpictures/rpn55108.jpg
http://www.ratemyfaceadult.com/mpictures/rpn55109.jpg
http://www.ratemyfaceadult.com/mpictures/rpn52743.jpg
http://www.ratemyfaceadult.com/mpictures/rpn52744.jpg
I have a small frame. 5'7-5'8 with girl shoulders. About 145lbs when I'm lean.
Max bench - 205lbs
Max squat - 315+
Max deadlift - 275+
*edit - on second thought I linked them so not all you guys have to see them, but i know all you homo butts are going to click the links.
StealthMode
Kung Foolin'
i take L-glutamine
I'm one of those bastards that has to gain weight, I try to eat anything with protein in it, chicken, nuts, etc. I eat alot of the protein powder, seems to work ok for me, moderate amount of carbs. I still weight lift and jog/roller blade. I'm 6'0" 175lbs.
liquid00meth
Senior Member
That "pain in your kidneys" was probably from dehydration. Higher creatine uptake has a side effect of making your muscles retain water. In other words, you need to be drinking a shitload of water. If your muscles are retaining it, it means it's not in your system. However, anything extra must be filtered out by your kidneys. Most all supplements are "hard" on your kidneys
And as a side note, thats why the other guy noticed a loss in his muscle size, energy, but still seemed cut etc. Once the water is out of your muscles, they get smaller, but they also get "sharper" edges.
adnoh:
What you know about creatine is wrong. Creatine in calories are not the same thing my friend. Creatine is present in meats naturally, but you have to eat enormous amounts of it to get your maximum possible absorption. There are dozens of studies that have been done that show that creatine supplementation has been effective in raising muscle endurance levels through the supply of energy readily available at the muscle level. It is not the same energy supply as a "calorie".
And Dextrose is d-glucose. Thats sugar, in case you were wondering.
Since you apparently have no idea how creatine works, This is the basics:
When your muscles use a molecule of ATP (energy) for a muscle contraction, it splits off a part of itseld and makes ADP (useless to muscles). Phosphocreatine, in the presence of ADP, phosophocreatine gives off a phosphate group to ADP, and REVERSES the process - making another ATP moleclue, which your body can use for another contraction. When you are exercising intensly, this replenishing source of energy helps you last longer, ie another couple reps.
Creatine supplementation is a highly effective way to maximize your body's creatine absorbtion, and produce this "energizing" effect reliably.
So adnoh, you seem to know a good amount, but I don't know what the fuck you are thinking with creatine. You are just plain wrong man. Creatine's benefits have been proven time and time again in laboratory studies.
