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Suspension questions.

Discussion in 'Wheels / Suspension / Tires / Brakes' started by Doc_G, Jan 24, 2010.

  1. Doc_G

    Doc_G Rude, Lewd, usually Nude

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    I've done quite a bit of searching on here in the suspension section and see Sk2 (Skunk 2) recommended quite a bit. I have gone to the sk2 site and have done a bit of window shopping, consequently I have some questions that I haven't found answered yet. Please allow me to preface these questions by saying I'm not looking for opinions (I've found those) I'd like to hear the answers from folks who either know these parts well, or use them them selves.

    I've decided on the sk2 lowering springs. I don't think my intended use for the hatch will require adjustable coil overs, I just want a decent ride height and responsiveness. I don't want an overly harsh ride but I would like the little car to handle well in the twisties. ONCE AGAIN I'M NOT LOOKING TO AUTO X THE CAR... JUST WANT IT TO HANDLE BETTER THAN STOCK. So with that in mind I was looking at the sk2 Pro Series front camber kit from what I read they are a step above the tuner series. However the tuner series appears to be all I really need, unfortunately they do not offer it for my year hatch. The Tuner series is offered for the 92-95 civic IIRC. Would those work, and are the pro series that much better than the tuner series?

    Next up rear Camber kits these are what I had in mind. Are they overkill for what I'm looking to do?

    I know I want to go with these LCAs. They mention longer bolts and mounting plates. Is that something I need to order in addition to the LCAs or do they (lca) come with the needed extras?

    Up to this point I've got $800.00 worth of suspension and I haven't even gotten to the shocks. For which I'm thinking of These, which will shoot me to about $1100.00

    Thats quite a bit to swallow and I'm sure I'm missing stuff, there will be no labor charges because I'm confident I can install it myself. But I'll have to add atleast $60.00 or so for (I'm guessing I'll need it) a 4 wheel alignment. While I don't mind putting the money into the suspension, what I don't want to do is overspend if there is a better (less expensive) option out there. I don't want to go ebay cheap, but since I'm not looking to auto x the car, (but DO want a good handling car) for those of you who have experience w/the above listed parts, any recommendations?

    ALSO forgot to mention, all of this will be in conjunction with a 17" rim, wrapped in 205/40/17 (or a 215/40/17 if I can get it to fit with out major modification to the wheel wells, no rubbing of the tires, and full turning radius)
     
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  2. Jared759

    Jared759 Well-Known Member VIP

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    I have all this on my 96, and had it on my 97. The LCAs don't come with a longer bolt. I also ordered the lower arm bar, which comes with hardware. The car does handle better than stock but it would be so much better if you had the strut bars and everything to match. I also at one point had 17's on my coupe, which rubbed like crazy whenever you turned. The camber kit just offers a little bit more camber adjustment over the tuner series.
     
  3. Doc_G

    Doc_G Rude, Lewd, usually Nude

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    Ok well I found a Sk2 suspsension kit. "Package Includes: Skunk2 Coilover kit, Skunk2 Front Camber Kit, Skunk2 Rear Camber kit." To which I add the shocks and LCAs brings me to a little over $1200.00. Now given that I'm using 17" rims, the adjustable coilovers should be a plus even if I set it once and say to hell w/it, no? Or since I just want to really give the car a good stance w/decent handling go w/the lowering springs for less expense?
     
  4. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Static drop springs work perfectly fine for most of the people out there- you just have to be happy with the ride height out of the box. Your car might not be perfectly level (mine wasn't with my Eibach springs, hard to tell unless you knew though) but if you've measured things out and you're happy with the advertised height, quite often the static drop springs will handle better than an adjustable spring. Most adjustables are linear rate springs- most static drop springs are progressive, so you get a better ride when you're not cornering hard.

    It's been a while since I've been digging for suspension parts, but I'm pretty sure that the front upper A-arm mounts are spaces differently between the 88-91 Civics and the 92-95 Civics. If they are, then the kits won't interchange. But you knew that. ;) If you want a cheaper alternatives that is still very solid, you could look at Progress Suspension's camber kit. It's a static camber change so you can't adjust it once it's on (so your left/right might be slightly different) but it's MUCH cheaper than the Skunk2 and every bit as durable. I ran a set on my Civic before I decided that I just had to have infinite adjustability everywhere in the car.

    Ok, never mind... I take that back:

    88-91 Honda Civic Complete alignment kit Alignment Kits Honda Civic 88-91 Honda Civic Complete alignment kit Progress Technology: Anti-roll bars, sport springs, coil-overs, camber kits and more since 1995!

    [​IMG]

    That's what they have now. It's not as beefy as the upper mount relocation kit they used to sell, and a good bit more expensive. It is adjustable though, but for an additional $60 I'd rather have the replacement control arms.

    I think it's overkill. I have a set myself from another manufacturer (Ingalls) and I liked them a lot, but you can solve rear camber issues with a few washers and longer grade 8 bolts. Just get bolts that are half an inch longer than stock and get a few washers- each washer thickness added underneath the upper control arm mount gives you about a quarter degree of positive camber back. If you're not ultra picky about having your sides match to the closest tenth of a degree, you'll do fine with this $5 solution. When I used washers my rear camber ended up being within .2 degrees of each other in the rear.

    That's a phone call to them to see if they're included; but from the description it looks like you definitely need the longer bolts if you get the LCAs, and it doesn't seem to mention that they come in the package. Why do you want new LCAs anyway?

    That's not a bad price for a full set- just make sure it's for all 4! Usually the cheapest I've seen for a full set of decent shocks is about $350 (KYB AGX), and things go up from there.

    Leave out the LCAs
    Stay with your spring choice
    Go cheap on the rear camber setup- you really won't notice, and you'll save $100+ (most alignment techs won't set everything to exact .1 tolerances anyway)
    Get adjustable shocks- they're not that much more

    Are you having to buy the wheels? If not, a 16" combo might work out better. 17" is just a little large, and honestly- a shorter wheel with better rubber will cost the same and handle better... not to mention ride a little more smoothly. Especially on a 4th gen like you have.

    $1200 for all that isn't bad at all. Do you have links to exactly what it includes?
     
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  5. Doc_G

    Doc_G Rude, Lewd, usually Nude

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    Skunk2 Suspension Package #1 You'll have to scroll down just over half way. It appears it comes w/some coilover sleaves, springs, control arms, and rear camber kit. Looks like is has some kind of spacer or adapters for the coil overs. It has a pic.

    Ok so from what it looks like the static drop springs *might* provide me w/the kind of ride I want vs the adjustable coil overs. I originally wanted the LCAs because of weight transfer and off the line acceleration, but if the LCAs aren't needed, that's about $200.00 I can save and spend else where. The 17" I already have, they are fairly light weight, and w/a 40 series tire I believe I'll be ok, but if not I'll go 205/35-30/17. I don't mind some clearancing (done that before w/my mustangs and camaros) w/a BFH if necessary, but I didn't want to be fabricating any wheel wells. Got one helluva deal on the 17" rims, so I couldn't pass them up. Once I get them cleaned up a bit I'll post pics of them. Gotta get some tires on 'em though. Here is a pic of them on the car I got them off of, this is how I'd like my car to sit but I want a fair bit of handling out of it as well:

    [​IMG]

    I'm still debating if I want his turbo'd b20/5speed for my car. He's still debating on if he wants to part it out or not.
     
  6. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Ah, found it. I was writing a rant about the "Function and Form" brand, but now have figured out that you were linking to the actual Skunk2 hardware. That kit just has the coilover sleeves and front/rear camber kits. There are no lower control arms in there. That's not a bad price, but you could probably find just the coilover sleeves and front camber kit for about $400-450 and save some cash with the washer trick in the back. Do some comparison shopping- Skunk2 parts are sold in quite a few places.

    Yeah... you save about a pound (maybe less) on each corner in the suspension which is a good thing- but since you're not building a track monster, there are MUCH better places to spend your money. I really don't think you're going to notice the difference in handling from changing LCAs, and there really won't be any change in acceleration. I wouldn't bother with aftermarket LCAs unless you broke a stock one (even then just get a stock replacement) or you need the extra mounting locations for sway bar adjustment.

    Gotcha. You already have them- just use them. Most people here on this forum will tell you that 17 is too big, but paid for is paid for. My CRX had 17s on it when I test drove it, and they fit in the wheel wells just fine. I'd run a 205/40-17. There's MUCH better tire selection in that size than in the 35 profile, and they're cheaper too. You'll lose some acceleration from the slightly larger diameter compared to stock, but if you get the B series setup the transmission will be expecting the larger tire too.

    I thought this was just going to be a beater? A straight up turbo B20 is a pretty sweet setup. Simple, cheap, torquey.
     
  7. phyregod

    phyregod !!YTINASNI

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    Neuspeed sport springs, KYB AGX struts, skunk 2 front camber kits, washer trick for the rear, and energy suspension sway bar bushings. It'll handle beautifully, not be harsh (you can dial the AGXs to your liking) and you can get it done well under budget. Forget the lower control arms, they will do absolutely nothing for your application.

    Also, consider 15" or 16" light weight wheels instead of 17's.
     
  8. Doc_G

    Doc_G Rude, Lewd, usually Nude

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    Well I was just gonna use it as a daily driver, however if my buddy decides to part his hatch out, then I'll get the turbo set up, entire drive train, 5speed swap parts I need, ecu, hondata 200 the works for less than 1200.00 plus my drive train and ecu. Basically we're going to swap all his stuff over to my shell and vice versa, then he sells the hatch. I'd love to buy his car and go from there, but his asking price is just a bit out of my range.

    Thanks for the info Phyre, I'll look into it. And about the rims... too late, as I've already got the 17's.
     
  9. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    That's one hell of a deal for under $1200. I'd definitely go for it as long as you're not going to be out a ton of extra money installing it.
     
  10. Doc_G

    Doc_G Rude, Lewd, usually Nude

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    I won't be out too much money, I'll be selling the extra turbo kit I had for my 88 GT that I sold. Not doin' me much good right now, and to be honest his turbo kit is mostly a cobbled to-gether home made unit. Cheap ebay manifold that's got I don't know how many welds (but its solid) The turbo is the smallest thing I've ever seen, and it's off a tractor, but I swear to god it pushes that car I posted down the 1/8th in 8.30's The waste gate needs some tinkering with, and the tune needs work. The turbo spools sooooo fast, this thing is like neck breaking on the freeway from a 45mph roll. The tranny grinds into 3rd when you shift it fast. It does need a bit of work, but for $1200.00 I don't think I can beat it as the engine itself is fresh.

    So what I've learned here is , static springs, camber kit, spacers, and a good set of shoks, all in an effort to make it look like the attached pic. Please forgive the poor photoshop skills.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Yup, pretty much. That doesn't look that bad, honestly- and I'd say that you want to close out the rear gap some more, but you might be a little nose heavy with the static springs and a swap. Maybe coilover sleeves would be better if you're considering adding more weight under the hood.
     
  12. Doc_G

    Doc_G Rude, Lewd, usually Nude

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    Ok so I don't think I've posted pics of the car from when I got it, but here it is as it sits now. In keeping with the budget tuner theme, I bought a set of used springs, new struts all the way around, found a decent set of used tires for the rims (205/45/17) and there is no rubbing. Will be doing the brakes this weekend. Not bad for what I've got invested, that being said, I'm selling the car to my little brother for $2200.00. He asked me if I'd sell it, and I told him "Everything I've got's for sale man" He asked me what I wanted on the car, and I told him to tell me what he'd be willing to pay. Thus I'm $2200.00 richer. He offered $2600.00 if it makes any difference. Anyway on w/the pics:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Oh and sorry they're cell phone pics, I didn't have my camera handy.
     
  13. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Ack. I was just trying to click on them to enlarge... :(
     
  14. Doc_G

    Doc_G Rude, Lewd, usually Nude

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    I'll get some better pics tomorrow while at work. Rides SOOO much better now. I need to get some centercaps, I either only got one, or I lost the other three... fuck if i know.
     
  15. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Rides so much better- but you sold it?
     
  16. Doc_G

    Doc_G Rude, Lewd, usually Nude

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    yeah didnt make much sense to the wife either. But to be honest, I'm too big for that little car. I want a truck or something.

    also here is the pic I took today at work while it was snowing. Too cold to take any more.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2010
  17. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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