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Swap advice please

Discussion in 'Civic and CRX - EF' started by dmparr, Sep 20, 2008.

  1. dmparr

    dmparr New Member

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    Ok this is my first post as apart of this forum and I would like to first thank everyone on the forum for sharing their knowledge and experiences. I would like to say that I'm new to the Honda scene but I'm eager to learn. I've done an engine swap on a Geo Metro before.(swift GT motor) When I first put that little screamer together it was fast enough for me at the time. I had 2 kills with it the same night I got it running. :lol: That is another thread though so I wont go into detail. I would like to perform a B series swap into a Metro Convertible. Before you start giving me crap about my choice let me say this. I bought the car for 150 bucks rust free and have spent the last year getting it ready for paint and the Swift GT engine. I've spent upwards of $1500-$2000 in the work I've done so far, not to mention the countless hrs of work I've put into it and it's not on 4 wheels yet. It's my project car and yea I know it's a strange choice but with a GT body kit it's a whole new car. I would use the GT motor I already have but with the time and money I've put into the car it just simply isn't enough to satisfy what I want out of the car.

    Just in case your wondering why I don't just build up the motor I already have let me give you a run down. Lets say I want 140 Hp out of it so I do the only bolt on mods I can do. Cultus intake is about $600-$800 on ebay and it's about the only option. Then I need cams, so a set of good cams is about 300 from Canada. Third I need a header so tack another $200-$300 onto that and I've got a 4-1. Well then to take advantage of the parts I bolted on I need to bump the compression up but it's already at 10.3-1 stock, so I bump it upto 11-1 or 11.5-1. So far I've just spent $1250 on bolt on parts not including the cost from the machine shop. In doing all that it might get me 130 Hp and maybe 100 Ft-Lbs of Trq. Soooo I've spent $1250 and don't have the power the B16 has stock.

    What I need from the people of this forum is some advice as to what motor to choose from. I know their are several options and most of them can be decided by my budget. Although I would love to build a turbo car I simply don't know enough about engine management and tuning a turbo to take that on, so unless I become a genius overnight I'm staying N/A. Money is a factor if it becomes an astronomical amount otherwise, not so much. I'm currently looking in the price range of $5000-$6000 if I go over a little bit it's not a big deal. I would like somewhere in the range of 200Hp-250Hp and 150-175 Ft-Lbs of Trq. I'm not sure if thats atainable staying N/A but thats kind of the range I'm looking for.

    The research I've done so far:

    My vert with a Swift Gt motor: Stock 100 Hp @6500 Rpm and 83 Ft-lbs at 5000 Rpm and Redline at 9000 (Chiped Ecu) Estimated weight of the car with a GT swap is about 1950-2000 Lbs.

    B16 1992-1997 Del Sol
    158 Hp @7800 Rpm and 113 Ft-Lbs @7000Rpm

    B16b Civic type R: (I know this is a rare find)
    Curb weight 2358Lbs 185 HP @ 8200 Rpm and 115 Ft-Lbs @7500Rpm Redline 9400 Rpm

    B18 1990-1993 Integra
    Curb weight: 5 Speed - 2560Lbs 130 HP @6000 Rpm and 126 Ft-Lbs @ 5000 Rpm Redline 6500 Rpm

    B20 1996-1998 CR-V
    Curb weight: 3150Lbs 126 Hp @ 5400 Rpm and 131 Ft-Lbs @ 4300 Rpm Redline 6300 Rpm

    Yes I know I'll have to fabricate mounts, figure out drive axles, work out the wiring, ext. ext. ext. I'm not at all worried about the mounts, the drive axles will more then likely be custom made, and I might need some help figuring out the wiring. I've been a machinist for 9 years and run anything from a Bridge Port mill to a cnc EDM machine. My primary machines are 2 CNC lathes one vertical with live tooling and one horizontal. I'm a programmer/operator so I'm sure I can handle a couple motor mounts. Not to mention my brother-in-law has a 9 second chevell that he did all the chassi welding on so I've got that part covered also.

    Any advice is greatly appreciated
    Thanks DJ
     
  2. George777

    George777 ^^ Likes Bewbies

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    What are your long term intentions with this car? Is it just going to be a Sunday Cruiser, an autox competitor, 1/4 mile vehicle? If money isn't really an option (5-6k is a generous budget), and fabrication is "handled", pick what your poison for the car will be, and we can give you a better idea of what our opinion of the "best" motor would be.

    Even though this is Hondaswap, and you are doing the swap into a Metro, have you considered other options, such as Toyota or Nissan?
     
  3. dmparr

    dmparr New Member

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    Well my long term intentions for this car are basically a cruiser with a twist. :D It will see some track time of course, once it's done I'll have to put it on a dyno so I know what I have. Whats a dyno run without track time, I've gotta know what it will run. As much as I like Auto X this car won't see anything other then aggressive street driving and a few car shows.

    To be honest I haven't really considered other motors simply because I don't know Honda's that well and I know even less of the Toyota, Nissan cars. :lol: I know a bunch of guys that run Honda's as a daily driver Monday-Friday and run the hell out of them on Saturday night at track day and they hold up. Although only about 4 or 5 of them have any real money put into their car. I think their is only 1 or maybe 2 non-factory turbo cars in my area, both are civics. I've been told by others to put a Sr20 in it but I don't believe it will fit to be honest. With a Swift GT motor in it I only have about 3/4" between the frame rail and the accessory pulley and about 1 or 2 inch between the fraim rail and tranny. Like I said I know even less about the Nissans or Toyotas. The only performers that I know of that are Toyota is the Supra or the Celica and for the Nissan I guess would be a 300ZX, 200SX, or Skyline. I guess I could look into that option as well but what do you guys think. The biggest advantage that my car has is that it's lighter then most.

    Thanks
    DJ
     
  4. red91efhatch

    red91efhatch New Member

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    My only recommendation for HP you want is a b18cR out of an integra type R thie engine is made to be n/a210hp134ft/t10.8 CR8900 RPMThat would be some shit seeing that in a metro, there may be other combinations but hey go for the gold.just had a thought, K-series swap- now that would be dirty.
     
  5. George777

    George777 ^^ Likes Bewbies

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    I doubt he would be able to do a K swap for 6 grand. But if he could, that would be a pretty interesting car.
     
  6. OoDTHoO

    OoDTHoO New Member

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    You should go for LS V-Tec. At the right place you can get it for around $1000. then another $200 for the ecu. the drive axles,wiring, ext. ext. im sure you can get cheap at a U-Pull-It. you can get around 250-300HP out of it if you get bigger tranny, and a better head.

    LS V-Tec $1000
    ECU- $200
    U-Pull-It- $300 depending on what you get, this is a high guess
    Tranny- $400
    Head- $300

    So with the list your at $2200. If you did get a new head and block you could sell the old ones wich would bring your SPENT price down to around $1800.

    Just look into this motor some more and see what you think. there is alot you can do to it for less then $6000. if you cant find parts your looking for go to WWW.ShortGeard.Com and email them. im sure they can help you. good look.
     
  7. phoenix19l

    phoenix19l New Member

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    DJ,
    I am more of a nissan guru than anything else. If you pull the dimensions on the b18 engines and pull a measurement on the sr20det FWD from a bluebird U2 (which is also has AWD optional), you will notice that they are within a few thousand of each other. Also, the sr20det is more turbo compiant. it comes from the factory with a turbo. the bottom end from these motors are indestructable,well, within reason. They com stock with much more power and better curves then any B- series honda engine. If you dont like the SR20DET or SR20DE (nonturbo) then check out the CA18DEt or CA18DE (nonturbo). This is just another option for you to look into. But, of course, this is a your decision. Have fun pondering.
     
  8. phoenix19l

    phoenix19l New Member

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    The HP/TQ for the SR20DET is 205/203 respectively.
     
  9. phoenix19l

    phoenix19l New Member

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    all this for under $2000 stock
     
  10. dmparr

    dmparr New Member

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    I had no idea that the SR20 came in front wheel drive. I just looked at the Blurbird SR20's on ebay and kinda looked them over to see if I could figure out where the motor and transmission mounts are located. The main reason I was thinking of the B series is because making the mounts and getting the motor into position would be easy. The Suzuki Swift motor mounts in a similar manner. Well except the Suzuki swifts/Metro's have the motor placed on the left side, opposite of the Honda's
     
  11. cjvictoria

    cjvictoria New Member

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    umm yeah fuck a ca18... those are outdated... youd be better off gettin a b16 or a GA16DE nissan motor
     
  12. phoenix19l

    phoenix19l New Member

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    DJ,
    Which side is you transmission on? drivers or passenger? I will do some more research into this for you and see what else I can come up with. Are you set on getting a honda motor?
     
  13. dmparr

    dmparr New Member

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