The "Del Sol Shell"
- Thread starter Rammus
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"Carried Away" is my middle name!
Everybody did dumb shit when starting out, and have the stories and scars to prove it. Some of us are old enough to talk about it - survivors - learned the hard way. Appreciate you sharing that - sorry you got hurt that bad.
When I was building my shop, remodeled two car garage. A guy at work was restoring an Indian Motorcycle his dad gave him. He drained the tank into a bucket, was walking with bucket and gas splashed out on the concrete floor and his pant legs. Vapors flowed across the floor to one of those propane heaters that connects to a travel trailer size tanks and it ignited. Burned him severly. His son was in the shop when it happend, so he flung the bucket and went back in for his son. Fortunately son went the other direction to safety.
When I did the shop, it has electric heat that is flying high near the ceiling way above vapors. Flourescent lights with protective diffusers, mucho wiring with plugs all around it, no extension cords to trip on, epoxy coated floor with silica sand in the top clear coat, and huge fire extinguishers at both ends.
It's just not worth getting hurt out in the home workshop - and it's easy to do if careless. I've got machinery that could take a finger off at the blink of an eye.
When I mention safety, it's in the hope that some guy will read it an may consider it - maybe save some other guy some of the pain I have experienced.
Back to the Del Sol build!
Okay so updates motor is torn apart and the block will be going out to be honed and decked next week some time. Need to find a place to get the crank balanced, order bettongs, and new pistons. Should have a set of Eagle rods in the mail next week and the block should be damn close to coming together.
As for the head looks like come tax return season will be when I pick that up and get the work done. It also seems as my mind has been changed again thinking on boosting I'm going to have access to some cheep turbo parts from a buddy's old car.
Got some more work done on the shell last night the beast moves under her own power!!!!!! Still have a few more wiring issues to work out (none of the lights come on right now) it just got to late. Every thing is begging to come together though. Got a bunch of tools and a new tool box for Christmas which helps alot no more single tray for me.
By the way Merry Christmas to every one following this!! I'll try to get some pics up soon.
As for the head looks like come tax return season will be when I pick that up and get the work done. It also seems as my mind has been changed again thinking on boosting I'm going to have access to some cheep turbo parts from a buddy's old car.
Got some more work done on the shell last night the beast moves under her own power!!!!!! Still have a few more wiring issues to work out (none of the lights come on right now) it just got to late. Every thing is begging to come together though. Got a bunch of tools and a new tool box for Christmas which helps alot no more single tray for me.
By the way Merry Christmas to every one following this!! I'll try to get some pics up soon.
When you say "crank balanced" you mean engine? It all needs to be done together - rods, pistons, wrist pins, etc. Have them do the flywheel and pressure plate too. When they did the flywheel on mine, I had them remove some metal from the back side - took it down to #12. Easy to drive on the street still, (even with the stage #1 pressure plate and clutch kit) but catches R's a bit faster when I romp on it.
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Okay so would like quick opinions. Block is in the shop as we speak and am wondering if I should bore just .5mm over or go to 84mm? Power goals still have not changed looking for a minimum of 250hp maybe 300. The plan at the moment is to run on E85 and turbo. I'm thinking just go with .5mm over just to give me a fresh bore and to make sure every thing is true. I just think that if I want to go more power in the future I can bore the block later on again, and I would more than likely get it sleeved if I want anything more then 400 or so.
I don't have any experience with the Honda build per se. But, on a block with high horsepower and heat - ala high stress. It'll hold together better with more metal in it. For a NA build I'd be more likely to take to the wall for piston size. For a Turbo build, I would stay more conservattive. If you want to take it out have it sleeved.
That's an opinion, without Honda experience on a Turbo build. But, I've built a few engines. More modified builds than stock builds.
The E85 is a real good idea - it'll get the net HP you're looking for, with much less strain (Heat and detonation issues) on the block, rods, pistons, head, etc.
Pushing a real 250whp on any given day and that little car will fly.
Stay a little more on the conservative side to start. Then, if you really want more, pick up another used block and prep it. That's basically the build philosophy I took with mine. Compression ratio is bumped up to 10:1 to start and I can run two more thinner gasket thicknesses that will net 10.25:1 and 10.5:1. If I take it up any higher, and I'm thinking about it - ARP head studs for sure and also a S300 with a tune.
That's an opinion, without Honda experience on a Turbo build. But, I've built a few engines. More modified builds than stock builds.
The E85 is a real good idea - it'll get the net HP you're looking for, with much less strain (Heat and detonation issues) on the block, rods, pistons, head, etc.
Pushing a real 250whp on any given day and that little car will fly.
Stay a little more on the conservative side to start. Then, if you really want more, pick up another used block and prep it. That's basically the build philosophy I took with mine. Compression ratio is bumped up to 10:1 to start and I can run two more thinner gasket thicknesses that will net 10.25:1 and 10.5:1. If I take it up any higher, and I'm thinking about it - ARP head studs for sure and also a S300 with a tune.
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Without going back and reading your entire thread, I'm making an assumption here based on that one post that you haven't sleeved the block yet. If you're running the stock sleeve, you can't bore out to 84mm- there won't be anything left! Go just .5mm over and you'll be fine. Actually, if you haven't bought your pistons yet (hopefully not since you're still talking about bore size), find out how much cleanup you need to do on the cylinder walls and then buy the smallest pistons that will fit. Since you can't go to 84mm, 81.5 isn't really going to gain you much over 81. Keep your walls thicker- just add more boost if you want more power. If you can run with 81mm pistons, just stick with them.
For E85, you'll have to make sure your whole fuel system is updated to handle the different stuff going through it- fuel lines, pump etc. I don't know how well OE Honda stuff holds up to ethanol based fuel. You'll also want to toss your 440s and get something larger. E85's ideal air/fuel ratio is quite a bit richer than gasoline- it's around 10:1 as opposed to 14.7:1. To properly burn the same amount of mixture, you'll need to pump a LOT more fuel into your combustion chamber. E85 is also less energy dense than straight gasoline, so you'll have to run a LOT more through your engine for the same amount of power. For your 250-300whp goal, I'd just stick to gas. It's a lot easier.
For E85, you'll have to make sure your whole fuel system is updated to handle the different stuff going through it- fuel lines, pump etc. I don't know how well OE Honda stuff holds up to ethanol based fuel. You'll also want to toss your 440s and get something larger. E85's ideal air/fuel ratio is quite a bit richer than gasoline- it's around 10:1 as opposed to 14.7:1. To properly burn the same amount of mixture, you'll need to pump a LOT more fuel into your combustion chamber. E85 is also less energy dense than straight gasoline, so you'll have to run a LOT more through your engine for the same amount of power. For your 250-300whp goal, I'd just stick to gas. It's a lot easier.
I had figured as much for 84mm. The whole point of boring the .5 over was to just ensure the cylinder was truly round and not egged. The bores are being measured next week some time when he gets a chance and if they are all good then I dont think I will bore at all. This was more of a question if it has to be done what should I do. And no I have not bought pistons yet waiting for final measurements on the bore. I would hate to buy 81mm pistons and find out I had to bore the block to get true cylinders.
For going E85 I did plan on getting bigger injectors my roommates brother is the guy working on the block for me (he works at MAP here in MN) and had a set of 750's and 1000's he could get me.
I also already did the whole fuel system the only thing left stock on it now is the fuel filter. When I got the car the lines were cut at the tank and the whole sending unit was removed. I got a walbro 255 in it now and stainless lines running the whole way up and back.
Thanks for the help!
Good. When measuring cylinders, if the guy knows what he's doing, he can tell if it's oblonged. If not, hone it, maybe a ridge ream, deck it and rock on. Studs for the head of course.
Mileage will be ~25% less on Ethanol, but for horsepower that's the way I'd go for sure. I'm a little prejudice here for Alcohol cuz I've built and ran many engines on Alcohol and do like it. I did the Alcohol learning cuve ~40 years ago. If you want to go fast, alcohol is a better solution than pump gas.
The ethanol that's sold at a gas pump must have addidtives in it to make it a little more friendly. Methanol or Ethanol won't bother the neoprene lines in the fuel system, but Methanol and Ethanol both really suck moisture out of the air and can rust gas tanks inside. I would guess the pump ethanol has rust inhibitors and such. It can also be corrosive on aluminum, but cars equipped to run on pump ethanol aren't any different inside. Which is why I speculate there are additives in the pump ethanol.
Mileage will be ~25% less on Ethanol, but for horsepower that's the way I'd go for sure.
I'm a little prejudice here for Alcohol cuz I've built and ran many engines on Alcohol and do like it. I did the Alcohol learning cuve ~40 years ago. If you want to go fast, alcohol is a better solution than pump gas.The ethanol that's sold at a gas pump must have addidtives in it to make it a little more friendly. Methanol or Ethanol won't bother the neoprene lines in the fuel system, but Methanol and Ethanol both really suck moisture out of the air and can rust gas tanks inside. I would guess the pump ethanol has rust inhibitors and such. It can also be corrosive on aluminum, but cars equipped to run on pump ethanol aren't any different inside. Which is why I speculate there are additives in the pump ethanol.
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MAPerformance FDSM goes 8.81 at Englishtown Showdown 8/16/09 - YouTube
That's one of the shop cars that he helped with. He himself has done all the work on his car as well which is a 700whp neon srt-4 and that scares the crap out of me. I trust him.
That's one of the shop cars that he helped with. He himself has done all the work on his car as well which is a 700whp neon srt-4 and that scares the crap out of me. I trust him.
Sounds like you're covered then.
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