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The Gingrich anti-freespeech speech

Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by DarkHand, Dec 1, 2006.

  1. DarkHand

    DarkHand Senior Member VIP

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    I usually chime in on political topics, but rarely want to have to start one because they can be so heated, but this is a test.

    I think we can get some actual agreement on this one from everyone on all sides.

    It regards Newt Gingrich's speech in which he says he's essentially against freedom of speech, at a banquet honoring those who stood up for freedom of speech.

    http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Gingrich+raises+alarm+at+event+honoring+those+who+stand+up+for+freedom+of+speech&articleId=d3f4ee4e-1e90-475a-b1b0-bbcd5baedd78

    Crooks and Liars » Gingrich Wants to Re-examine Free Speech

    And a rebuttal on MSNBC: Crooks and Liars » Olbermann’s Special Comment on Gingrich: “We fight for liberty by having more liberty and not less”


    I believe everyone here may actually be in agreement for once. Comments? Agreements? Possible disagreements?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2006
  2. 89crxzc

    89crxzc I provide inspiration!

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    freedom of speech is already limited, government is just another way to say better than you. that is all, i have spoken, go back to work.
     
  3. DarkHand

    DarkHand Senior Member VIP

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    Of course, but do some people actually see that limitation as correct, as Newt does? Or do they see it as a problem that needs to be fixed?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2006
  4. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    Freedom of Speech is like Freedom of religion. Are you free to worship the devil ? No. Can you worship a cult ? no. Are you Branch Dividian ? Prolly not - they are all dead.

    Freedom of Movement in America. Nope. There are lots of places you can't go. Our forests are off limits to those in trucks, some bikes and most dirtbikes.

    Freedom of privacy ? nope. Everyone knows where you are and what you do at all times.

    Reevaluate free speech to hold back terrorists ? Not when phrased like that. Phrase like I phrase it: Ban Islam in America. Ban extremism in public forums. You'll be protected from terrorism and the upcoming religious wars. Want your freedom ? Then take the pain that comes along with it.

    America voted to NOT take the pain that comes along with it. They voted to battle Terrorism (Which is a method, not a group).

    If you want an idea of the way America was supposed to be, talk to George Washington. If you want an idea of how america REALLY works, talk to Leonard Peltier.
     
  5. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    I can worship the devil all I want. Nobody can tell me I can't. I just can't do things like sacrifice live animals.

    Freedom of religion means all religions.

    I say ban Christianity too. Ban all religion while we're at it. Problem solved. I know I'd sleep better (and longer, goddamn bible thumping door knockers!) if religion was eliminated right this second.
     
  6. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    Here is the clarification :

    Satanism in practice is Ritual - and when involves people (Any people) becomes Ritualistic Abuse. Thus becomes illegal.

    A loophole for everyone, everyone for the loophole.
     
  7. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    Ritualistic abuse usually means trying to sacrifice someone to the Dark Lord. There's more than just "ritualistic abuse" to worry about when it comes to that.
     
  8. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. Google it.
     
  9. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    [FONT=arial,helvetica]
    [/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica]"A ritual is an act which is repeated according to a specific procedure. One simple superstitious example is throwing of a pinch of salt over your shoulder after you have spilled some salt. A Roman Catholic mass is an example of a majestic, complex religious ritual. Societies have many rituals related to major life passages, like birth, marriage and death.[/FONT]"
    [FONT=arial,helvetica]
    Google owns you.

    [/FONT]"[FONT=arial,helvetica]Ritual Abuse has been defined as psychological, sexual, and/or physical assault on an unwilling human victim, committed by one or more people whose primary motive is to fulfill a prescribed ritual in order to achieve a specific goal or satisfy the perceived needs of their deity."[/FONT]

    Now, as long as no one is hurt/brainwashed/sacrificed/raped/goatse'd then all should be fine. You assume that all rituals are somehow linked to this. I think all but the most out there people that actually worship Satan don't do any ritualistic abuse.
     
  10. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    Paraphrased: No, Cel, you're totally wrong


    I love how you point out that your definition is wrong, then pull it on me to make it look like I'm wrong for pointing out your mistake. That is awesome.
     
  11. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    As opposed to "Anything I don't believe in is wrong and should be banned!" which seems to be the broken record you constantly play.



    Definition? When did I attempt to define anything? *YOU* were the one crying about how a religion is illegal in the States. It is not. Then you pull some crazy thing out of your ass (in true right-winger fashion) which blows up in your face (also in true right-winger fashion). You say Satanism is illegal because in practice is ritual. All religions have rituals, many involve people. Baptism for example. Therefore by *YOUR* definition...

    Christianity is illegal.

    The definition of ritualistic abuse is any physical/mental/sexual abuse brought upon an unwilling person. Like I said, as long as you aren't causing sacrifices or goatse'ing someone, there's no "abuse". If you're sacrificing people, you've got that murder thing to worry about, which I am certain they will pursue over the abuse charge.

    So... how is Satanism illegal?

    Just admit you got pwned this round, let the thread die and wait for the next one.
     
  12. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    Sabz: Twists my words around to make me "pwnt".

    Blanco: Correct in this matter. I am going to point out that the Satanism that you're talking about is LaVeyism. LaVeyism has been around a shorter time than the boundaries of Satanism have been defined. but I get what you're saying.
     
  13. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    Boy Steve, you are marching dangerously close to another warning with your ban Islam stuff. Why the hatred for a religion that you have demostrated that you knwo nothing about? You have no factual basis for any of your claims on Islam and every time we have argued about it you have been proven wrong.
     
  14. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    Cite examples. And take your warning threats and shove them.
     
  15. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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  16. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    I read them both. I fail to see my folly. Please, "go for 3".
     
  17. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    In the Name of Religion, start at post 15 and read to post 25. The problem here is that you don't see what was wrong. The first Amendment According to Celerity: You're allowed to practice any religion you want so long as it is in my list of approved religions.

    You are failing to answer my basic question, which is: why do you hate this one particular religion so much while you are completely ignorant of it? How can you claim that this one religion in particular is completely evil when all you say about it shows that your only sources of knowledge on it are Fox News and other highly unreliable sources?

    Have you ever actaully had a discussion about Islam with someone that practices some form of it? Have you ever read the Qur'an? Have you ever done any research on this faith at all???
     
  18. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    Show me how.
     
  19. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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  20. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    You know what that's called? Being in the wrong place.

    That whole "ethinc cleansing" thing sounds like what you want to do to Islam.

    I guess when you're on the other side of the gun, things look a bit different.
     
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