the next xprize

[posol]

the same guys that paid 10 mil for the first private space flight, are now offering 10mil for a company to build the highest mpg production car.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/12/...in1615295.shtml

 

[Capt. Orygun]

sweet all for it

America can take care of it's domestic issues far better then the federal government. This should be a useful experiment

 

[get_nick]

is this guy just doing it because he knows the technology is available and just trying to get it on the market? It's a good idea, but the implementation to the market will be difficult. Gas companies will have a shit fit with this. gas companies hold tons of patents that they wont release because it would hurt sales.

we have the technology, we just need it to be public now. kinda like the aids thing, if we gave aids to the 10 richest people in the world, we would have a cure within a year.

I hate how companies and government operate in what works best for them rather than the people.

 

[reckedracing]

we have the technology, we just need it to be public now. kinda like the aids thing, if we gave aids to the 10 richest people in the world, we would have a cure within a year.

i dunno about a cure, but they would find a way to live with it...
magic johnson much?

I hate how companies and government operate in what works best for them rather than the people.

this is CAPITALISM aka greed...
the gov't leaves it up to the corporations "social responsibility" to "do the right thing"
like recall 200 million tires because they are defective... ooh wait, that would cut into profits...

 

[Capt. Orygun]

Quoted post[/post]]
this is CAPITALISM aka greed...
the gov't leaves it up to the corporations "social responsibility" to "do the right thing"
like recall 200 million tires because they are defective... ooh wait, that would cut into profits...

still a better system

if firestone kills 1,000 drivers next year and does nothing about it eventually people will buy from someone else

if the government screws you over they still get your tax dollars next year....

 

[Airjockie]

I will win this....and be rich!!!!



I already have a proto-type in the works....

 

[posol]

Quoted post[/post]]
Gas companies will have a shit fit with this. gas companies hold tons of patents that they wont release because it would hurt sales.

huh?

What does exxon valdez, or sun oil company hold a patent on that will limit some technie nerdy dude from building a car/motor that gets 200+ mpg?

 

[Celerity]

"Production car" kinda hints that it's not a privateer thing. I think there may be a mild misphrasing afoot here.

 

[get_nick]

Quoted post[/post]]

Quoted post[/post]]
Gas companies will have a shit fit with this. gas companies hold tons of patents that they wont release because it would hurt sales.

huh?

What does exxon valdez, or sun oil company hold a patent on that will limit some technie nerdy dude from building a car/motor that gets 200+ mpg?

i'm saying they have purchased patents in the past. it won't stop the progress. i'm just saying that we could have had more efficient motors a long time ago. not exactly 200 mpg. but i'm sure we had the technology 20 years ago to have cars that would be 90% or more efficient and get at least 60 mpg. maybe i'm wrong. maybe i'm an asshat. maybe technology has peaked and we are slow to progress. but who am i?

 

[posol]

I just don't see what type of patent an oil company can own that would stop this?

its not like they invented the internal combustion motor...

 

[reckedracing]

I just don't see what type of patent an oil company can own that would stop this?

its not like they invented the internal combustion motor...

oil companies have the money to buy up any patent that comes along that would decrease usage, thereby decreasing their profit...

think about it
you have a way to get an extra 5mpg with existing motors, auto companies might offer you 1mil for your idea, but the oil company could offer you 2 mil to make sure your idea never comes to market...

kinda like microsoft buying any potential competitor

 

[Airjockie]

The 1986-87 Honda CRX HF got 54mpg...so 20 years ago...yea.....

 

[asmallsol]

hmm, this is VERY cool. getting into the 100mpg range I think is doable without TOO much effort (basicly a motorcycle sized engine designed to run extremely lean, long gears and with a ridiculously slippery drag coeffient) but 250 is going to be alot of new technology. I wonder by 250mpg, does that mean that it has to run on gasoline? Also, what conditions do the cars have to get that mileage. At very low speeds, since the wind resistance is much lower, you have less force on the engine, thus less power is needed.

I was reading a car and driver from 92 (it was the one where they first drove a b16 transtop del sol and it had a green sol on the cover) and they had a geo metro and by driving at like 40 something mph in its top gear, they were able to get 120ish mpg.

after doing some searching i found this 150mpg car
http://www.i4u.com/article5165.html

only 100 more to go

One of my theroys is to have the internals made out of an alloy with a much higher melting tempature, possibly a nickel alloy, so that way you could run the engine alot more lean, possibly with a power additive such as nitrous so that way combined, you could run very little gas and acheive the same power as a bigger engine. This means instead of running a half liter engine, you may be able to go half that size, or even less.

 

[Dustin_m]

anyone remember the SCC issue a year or more ago that one of the writers told about his idea for a hybrid 2 stroke/4 stroke motor that could be boosted to ridiculous PSI? i wonder how that type of motor would do.

 

[Celerity]

Quoted post[/post]]

I was reading a car and driver from 92 (it was the one where they first drove a b16 transtop del sol and it had a green sol on the cover) and they had a geo metro and by driving at like 40 something mph in its top gear, they were able to get 120ish mpg.

You can easily get averages of near 100 mpg driving from Vail to Salt Lake City. And yes, on a flat road, doing nothing for speed, you can easily get 120ish mpg out of a small engine and car. Wait till you see a Smart Roadster on i-70 doing 60mph eastbound through missouri.

One of my theroys is to have the internals made out of an alloy with a much higher melting tempature, possibly a nickel alloy, so that way you could run the engine alot more lean, possibly with a power additive such as nitrous so that way combined, you could run very little gas and acheive the same power as a bigger engine. This means instead of running a half liter engine, you may be able to go half that size, or even less.

Modern engines are already a high nickel content. Bonding that Nickel to the tool steel to take the stress requires other layers of metals that bond. Right now engines run so lean it's crazy - unheard of ratios in the 80s.

Titanium cryo rotary engines at highway speed is where it's at. But at that rate, you could run Propane efficiently and forget about gasoline (a Propane RX-7 will usually do 4 20 pound tanks per month, which is now.. what.. $80 ?)

 

[High_Rolling_Civic]

The problem with all the ideas and examples flying around here is that everyone is suggesting lower speeds and/or hp, and thats just not going to happen. americans love their loud, fast, powerful, gas guzzling machines too much to suddenly start giving them up for little, high mpg cars.

I'm all for better technology and better gas milage, but a lot of the problem lies in the public's view and wants, not the technology.

 

[Celerity]

I think that the world could deal with quiet sounds and even slower / sleeker cars. You can do a LOT more with 80hp now than you could with low-tolerance engines. People thought the end of Leaded gas would spell the end of car fever. IT hasn't.

What I don't think we could live without is clutch / shifter.

The other viewpoint is my perspective on the Mustang that I want:

I WANT a V6 model. And people are going nuts. "No man, you need the V8".

The truth is, I drive REALLY REALLY fast. But even in my driving, I would never, maybe rarely, use more than the 220hp that the V6 delivers. What does the car take to run at 100 mph ? 170 hp ? What's the difference if there is a V6 under the hood or a V8 ? All that horsepower - I'll almost never use it. But the $8000 difference, the extra 90 miles out of a tank of gas, I'll use that all day long.

 

[asmallsol]

Quoted post[/post]]

Titanium cryo rotary engines at highway speed is where it's at. But at that rate, you could run Propane efficiently and forget about gasoline (a Propane RX-7 will usually do 4 20 pound tanks per month, which is now.. what.. $80 ?)

Propane (although at standard atmosphere conditions) burns at 2268 kelvins or 1995*C. Titanium anneals at at around 400-500*C so cryo treatment would be reversed. (this is the same reason why cryo rotors are pointless because the first time the brakes are heated to high tempatures, the cryotreatment is reversed and recryslation occurs)

 

[Celerity]

Thank you.

 

[asmallsol]

Quoted post[/post]]


What I don't think we could live without is clutch / shifter.

The other viewpoint is my perspective on the Mustang that I want:

I WANT a V6 model. And people are going nuts. "No man, you need the V8".

The truth is, I drive REALLY REALLY fast. But even in my driving, I would never, maybe rarely, use more than the 220hp that the V6 delivers. What does the car take to run at 100 mph ? 170 hp ? What's the difference if there is a V6 under the hood or a V8 ? All that horsepower - I'll almost never use it. But the $8000 difference, the extra 90 miles out of a tank of gas, I'll use that all day long.

The Clutch and shifter has been slowy fazzed out over the past 30+ years. There are two generations that were not tought how to drive a standard transmission in drivers ed. Go to a local highschool I am sure more then 75% would say they do not know how to drive a manual car an if they where given the choice between 2 identical cars other then transmission, they would take the automatic. In america, fewer and fewer cars come with manual transmissions. Look at almost all trucks, SUV's, full size sedans and minivans. They are all basicly standard in automatics with no option other then sport shifting modes. Mercedes Benz are almost completely automatics here in america. Basicly the only cars that ARE offered with manual transmissions are either economy cars (honda cars, foci, cobalts, ect) or sports cars (bmw's, porsches, mustangs, vettes, roadsters, ect). Between the two groups are a much larger segment of cars. Even the most high end sports cars are slowly going to sequential transmissions because shifting speeds are becoming faster and faster with sequential boxes. I love standard transmissions but america doesn't. Europe and Japan are diffrent stories (in the same way they have K-cars and other cool small cars) where 95% of the cars you see will be manual transmissions.

As for v6/v8 debate, any car today including minivans can do 100mph and it doesn't really take much hp to run at that speed, the diffrence is just how long it takes you to get there.


<span style="color:#FF0000">EDIT </span>

Finally

Modern engines are already a high nickel content. .

This is true there are high nickel contents, however, they are still aluminum based. Super Nickel alloys are Nickel based with around 60wt% nickel and the other 40wt% of up to 10 other alloying metals so there melting tempatures are MUCH higher then an aluminum based alloy. Turbines of Jet engines are typically made of this and can withstand tempature as high as 1200*c while staying extremly strong.

The biggest problem in extremly high tempature environments is corrosion rates increase and high tempature creep. A Super Alloy resists both making them a great canidate for an extreamly lean (like maybe 20:1, 30:1, air:fuel ratios)

Bonding that Nickel to the tool steel to take the stress requires other layers of metals that bond.

As for this statement Are you trying to talk about thin film deposition?