Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by Sabz5150, Feb 1, 2005.
Ahhh religous extremism. Gotta love it!
As a parent of three boys I have learned that I cannot be with them 100% of the time nor should I HAVE TO be. We strongly monitor the shows our children watch. Most programming on PBS is kid oriented during the day. Normally it's "safe"
What liberals don't seem to understand is that we want our kids to be kids while they're, well, KIDS. I do NOT want to sit down with my 5 year old and try to attempt to explain homosexuality. When it is introduced innocuously as "background" in a show it still raises questions. I know. I have kids.
If we are in a public place and two queers are holding hands or being POLITELY affectionite, fine. But when they preach homosexualty or are grossly (pun intended) affectionate, then it crosses the line & I have to have conversations about subjects that kids do not need to be aware of.
It makes me cry to think of the conversations I have had with my children. What they have seen with their own eyes & heard with their own ears at such terribly young ages. I remember what I had to deal with at that age. It is heartbreaking that with the loss of something we should all hold dear, innocence, your defensive argument is that I am a bad parent or that I should just turn the other cheek.
that is truely tragic.
Like your virginity, once your youthful innocence is gone, there is nothing you can do to re-gain it.
I am the parent of a 7 year old. You can kiss my ass.
I want my child to be *educated* about different lifestyles. Ignorance is what breeds this kind of crap. Fear and ignorance.
If I am in a public place and I see two gays holding hands and being affectionate, I don't even look twice. If they are preaching or making out like mad, then I just walk away. Hell, if ANYONE was preaching or making out I would walk away. If my daughter asks, I will tell her what it means to be gay.
I don't hear any hateful words from my child, nor do I fear anything she has seen. I am 100% aware of what she has seen, and anything she has questions about, I TELL HER THE TRUTH. Of course I do not allow her to say bad words, and she understands that those words are bad and they should not be used. What conservatives don't realize is that children undrestand these things, and when they are told the truth about it, they become accepting and tolerant.
Are your kids going to be calling gays "queers" like you do?
Hate breeds hate, my friend. Nothing else does.
thanks for the offer but i decline.
You mean queers aren't gay? It was meant to push your button. Glad to see it did.
I've never lied to my children. I have deferred talking about a subject that I felt they were too young to discuss. Like the fact I've been arrested or that my wife was pregnant before we were married. Some things you just wait until kids are older to discuss. SEX IS ONE OF THEM.
She's 7 and you have never heard her say anything hateful?! You expect me to believe that?!! Feeding me that BS I might not believe you have kids at all. Kids are cruel, selfish little imps. All of them. As parents we try to mold them into polite young men and women but come on!! NEVER?
I'm sorry that your little girl, your baby girl, isn't going to get the have the innocence that I hope you enjoyed as a child.
Again, I find that tragic.
Me? Innocence? Barely. When *I* was 7, my dad used to take me to hang out with his biker gang, group called the Invaders. I used to watch as they fired many a weapon at human shaped targets. I would collect shells for fun. The bonfires were cool though.
They were a very intolerant bunch. Especially towards blacks. Suprise, suprise.
Anyway, my dad kept me away after one of the members took a 12 gauge pump action to the face, point blank.
I explain to my daughter every thing to the best of my ability. Sure I defer from saying certain things. She understands that even though her parents are seperated, they both love her very much. She also understands that we date other people. She interacts very well with my g/f and my ex's b/f.
Agreed, sex should be saved until an older age. No doubt. However I am not going to tell her "NO YOU ARE NOT GONNA HAVE SEX." I will talk to her about contraceptives, etc and how guys think. Momma will take care of teaching her how to avoid assholes and people who just wanna use her.
As for being hateful, nope. She is a good child. Her school constantly tells us how wonderful she is and that she always gets along with others. She shares with other children and has many friends. I talk to her all the time about school.
My child listens to her parents and understands what is right and what is wrong. I don't force her to do anything (well maybe her homework), I simply tell her what happens when you do things. She chooses what to do herself.
EDIT: I will throw this in just for reference. My daughter is half black, half white. Mixed, if you will. I believe (and hope) that's one thing that helps her be tolerant towards others and be culturally diverse.
Gotta agree with ya there.
"practical experience" raising someone else's kids is NOT being a parent.
My attitude toward other adults on an internet message board is not shared with my children. Like most adults, I can separate the two. I do however, teach my children that when someone does something wrong for a good reason, it is still wrong. I do teach my children that they are ultimately to ones responsible for the consequences of their actions but I try to be honest with them about the effects it has on the bigger picture. In other words, dispelling the myth of, "I'm not hurting anyone but myself"
There are NO shades of grey when it comes to right & wrong. The fact that you believe so is as appalling to me as the article posted about HS kid's attitude toward the 1st admendment.
Right is ALWAYS right and wrong is ALWAYS wrong. Please cite some instances when there is a grey area. Theft? Murder? Lying? Cheating? Adultry? Rape? How about we just look at the "7 deadly sins"? Pride, Envy, Gluttony, Lust, Anger, Greed, & Sloth When are these okay? Under what set of circumstances exactly?
So children do not learn what they see, only what they are taught? No, that can't be true because you said, "You do realize that your children are learning from you just by watching you, don't you?" They are also learning by watching a steady diet of wishy-washy, grey area, do-what-you-think-is-right-in-your-own-mind barrage in commercials, print ads, movies, their classmates, games and, yes, even cartoons...
I am trying to act as a filter because I hope that as the pendelum swings back to the center, my kids and their innocence will survive.
"But I tend to side with people who actually work in the field every day."
WTF?! I am raising three of my own children every day. Exactly where are you going with this statement? On the surface its just stupid, Underneath.......well, its just stupid.
All this red, I feel like im in english class again.
With another shitty ass paper being corrected to hell.
my parents taught me about sex when i asked. my mom felt if i was old enough to ask, i was old enough to know. and, i thank her for that.
though, i did have children young, i KNEW what i was doing, and what could happen. and NO book, EVER will prepare you for life as a father or mother. it's one of the hardest, most rewarding jobs to ever have.
your ideas are your own, but if my kid asks me 'why does (so and so) have two mommies?' i can tell him. it's not that hard. kids just want to know. and he doesn't have to know about sex, but he can learn about same sex parenting.
I think Princess Mononoke is pretty damned gay.
And remember, Robotech isn't gay, but Rick Hunter is.
getting to your 'right' and 'wrong' argument, my take on it, is that, some people view same sex couples as 'wrong'. this is not true to them, they obviously don't see it that way.
if you perceive it to be 'wrong' that doesn't make THEM wrong, or YOU wrong, it's just a matter of opinion.
of course when it comes to crime and the seven sins... that's quite common sense that it's wrong.
EDIT: case in point: bombing on US. Osama believes he is in the right, and he's doing something for a purpose... but of course, since it is an attack upon us, and we have different beliefs, we think he is wrong...
that's making my point, thank you. Just because someone believes what they are doing is right, doesn't mean that it is.
As for the same sex argument, I'll just leave that one alone.
Sounds to me like you people have a problem with innocents . If society wasn't so stuck on "keeping your innocents" I think we'd all be happier people.
Just my $.02
May as well hop into the fray.
Basically what you are describing is the Kantian (immanuel kant) idea of a universal maxim, which tries to say that there are objective rights and wrongs. To lie is always bad, to steal is always bad. This really is an immature notion because, as Blanco pointed out, the needs of culture/society may change with the situation. Much as I hate to use Fredrich Hayek, he too would disagree with that idea as it would restrict liberties which would stymie innovation. Of course this isnt by any means an argument for moral relativism, I do believe that there universal concepts that are bad. More than anything though when I'm asked to look at something from a "moral" or ethical standpoint I tend to use the utilitarian philosophy, which is to say make the best choice that does the most good for the most amount of people.
Basically the seven deadly sins were created to keep order within a christian ideology (framework), while at the same time perpetuating itself. They will not, can not, and have not, withstood the test of time.
So basically to sum all of this up... fuck the neocon religious right, they can keep their dogma and their biggotry to themselves. Truthfully I don't know why real republicans would even associate themselves with these idiots.
^^ Makes sense. Republicans, by definition, have little in common with true Christians. In many ways, though, the term 'republican' has been replaced by 'conservative'. Which is a good segway to the relationship between conservatism and christianity. Modern Christianity being the highly "versatile" (read: hypocritical) religion that it is, has found quite a partner with which to operate from their lofty "moral plateau". The conservatives help the christians by lending their political stroke to ban everything not in the bible, and the christians help the conservatives by giving them the votes to stay in power.
Honestly, it's a frighteningly efficient tyranny machine if you ask me.
here's another example.
my father has been in a wheelchair his whole adult life. my kids have been around it, and they see it as a 'normal' thing... it's no less than walking people. some children ask my father where his leg went, out of pure curiosity, and some parents say 'no no honey, don't say that' and get flustered. it can be paralleled (though not the same) because, if the kids are AWARE of it, they won't 'embarrass' the parent, and they will learn that people are different, and that doesn't make them any less of a person. just as a little black girl asked me one day 'is he your baby?' i said 'yes.' she says to me 'how come he's brown?'
very innocent questions, but with even a little bit of exposure, and in appropriate ways, can teach them about how the world is. doesn't mean you have to like it, but it can ease some parents worry or embarrassment (which i think is absurd)
you may think i'm off my rocker, but i think kids should be aware of the world, and what goes on in it, so they can make better choices. if they know about something, and research it, then make a clear decision, they can handle ANY situation the same way, and they learn. it shouldn't be a big deal. and if you handle it like it ISN'T a big deal, they know it's not 'taboo'.
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