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throttle body power gains

Discussion in 'Civic and CRX - EF' started by philyphreak2127, Jun 28, 2008.

  1. philyphreak2127

    philyphreak2127 Back in the Game

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    Alright guys I figured I would pose this question to you guys since I got into it with a guy over this on another site. Okay so this guy has a vitara and eagle built z6 block with a minorly home ported z6 head, turbo motor. He was pushing around 300 horsepower on 19 lbs of boost, on 550 cc injectors. I asked him what intake manifold (to which he replied y7 manifold, he had been running a y7 head until he bought a z6 head to add a little more power)he was running and mentioned a quick cheap way to wake a couple more horses would be to run to a junkyard and get a throttlebody off of a b, h, or f series motor since they will bolt onto a d-series manifold and are 60 mm rather than 55 mm. This other guy began to argue that with a properly ported manifold and throttlebody would make a 20+ horsepower gain. I responded telling him that I wasn't saying anything about the manifold and that I didn't doubt it that getting a z6 or y8 manifold and porting it properly with a bigger throttle body that he would make a 20+ horse gain but I was simply talking about how just throwing a junkyard throttle body on his setup wouldn't be a huge power gain on the stock manifold he has on the motor. So does anyone who knows a bit about the flow dynamics of a motor know about how many horsepower can be had from simply taking a throttle body from a b, h, or f-series motor and putting it on his setup? Keep in mind I am not looking for a specific number just a ball park estimate with a quick explanation as to why he would gain that. I am not asking to argue anymore but hell if I gain anywhere over 5 horsepower I will throw my f22 throttle body on my motor.
     
  2. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    If it's not port-matched, he won't see any gains. If it is, he'll probably see minor gains; but don't know about +20hp.

    Reason being; the runners are still the same size and the VE of the engine doesn't change.
     
  3. SLOWdelawareEG

    SLOWdelawareEG my cars go fast

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    a 5mm larger tb will make minimal gains and probably wont be noticeable. saying it will make 20hp, port matched or not, is fucking preposterous.:confused: upgraded tb's should be on the bottom of the list in said situation(vitara+boost setup). if the bottom end's built, add fuel and boost, and retune that shit.
     
  4. philyphreak2127

    philyphreak2127 Back in the Game

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    well I am not arguing with the owner of the car himself but a guy who supposedly owns a flow bench. But then again obviously the guy can't read for him to understand I didn't mention the manifold. As for the owner of the car he runs low 11 second passes with this setup in a gutted ef.
     
  5. INJEN78

    INJEN78 HS LEGEND

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    and b series tb dont fit on d's i already tried:D
    the bolt holes are not spaced coreectly
     
  6. Luis998

    Luis998 Honda Enthusiast

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    I'd just get one of those "tornado" gizmo's that "guarantee you" fifteen horsepower for adding a piece of aluminum to your intake. :D
     
  7. philyphreak2127

    philyphreak2127 Back in the Game

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    well would you still have a porblem with velocity when it comes to forced induction? And as far as the b-series throttle body not fitting your intake manifold that suprises me. I was under the impression that all honda 4 cylinder throttle bodies besides maybe the k-series throttle bodies swap between each other.
     
  8. INJEN78

    INJEN78 HS LEGEND

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    i dunno..i tried to put the one from my b18a1 on my d16a6 mani..i thought the tps was arbage and tried swapping,,it didnt fit
    bolt holes were off a little bit
     
  9. Justin66

    Justin66 The Hondaswap Canadian

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    20HP from the TB alone is questionable, but if its tuned with some good cams and port matched, bigger intake manifold and filter im sure it can be.
     
  10. philyphreak2127

    philyphreak2127 Back in the Game

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    But he is saying 20+ horsepower gain on a vitara/eagle built z6 block with a minorly ported z6 head with a turbo setup I don't know the turbo right off hand but I know when it was dynoed he was putting down around 300 hp on 19 psi with 550 cc injectors. The funny part is upon rereading what the guy arguing with me was saying he ended up making himself sound like a douche becuase he was essentially backing up exactly what I said about how a 60 mm throttle body from one of the bigger honda motors will not add much in the way of performance especially if he sticks with the stock manifold. I just decided it wasn't worth my time to argue with a dude who can't even fully comprehend what he reads when he reads it. With that said. I have no doubt should he replace the intake manifold with say a z6 or y8 manifold port the runners and port match even a 60 mm stock throttle body and make sure the port is done well he could potentially see 20 horses. I wouldn't doubt it especially when it is used in a forced induction setup. I also think that with 19 psi on that build he would be well off to go ahead and swap out the fuel rail and injectors with an aftermarket aem or venom fuel rail and some bigger say 750, or 1000 cc injectors along with the intake manifold, and throttle body he could potentially turn the boost back up to 25 where he was running it retune the thing and be pushing close to 400 horses. But some people are penny pinchers and don't want to spend any money.
     
  11. INJEN78

    INJEN78 HS LEGEND

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    id be happy with a 300hp D...
    but i dont know about the 20 horses from im,tb and bigger injectors..
     
  12. philyphreak2127

    philyphreak2127 Back in the Game

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    well I also mentioned turning the boost back up to 24 psi though. If I could think of what turbo he is running you would understand why I say that. His tuner is pretty good as well, and its hard to explain but if you saw the dyno sheets you would understand, his turbo is far from maxed out its just his intake manifold, throttle body, and injectors are maxed out and you can tell from his dyno graphs.
     
  13. philyphreak2127

    philyphreak2127 Back in the Game

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    well its not so much that I can tell from this one dyno chart. its from repeated dyno charts after every new part and retune he does. I mean with the same setup merely changing from a stock y7 head to a ported z6 head even though the port was far from full race, he only gained around 11 horsepower. So I pretty much figure after seeing about 4 different dyno charts and multiple mods that his holset turbo is either maxed out, or he needs better air flow. And pardon me if I said the manifold and TB are maxed out I hardly think that would be possible on only a minor build like this if at all but they could be much better than they are now... Like I said its hard to explain and you probably think I am either crazy, or talking out of my butt, but after watching this build for quite a while now its relatively easy to tell he needs to upgrade the manifold, and throttle body. His torque curve is also very slow to rise to the peak. So a throttle body could help throttle response correct? Not to mention with a semi built block, ported head, but stock intake "system" so to speak and a turbo that has pushed all the way up to 24 psi and still not gone higher than 300 hp he needs to either upgrade the air flow or fuel flow to gain some more power.
     
  14. INJEN78

    INJEN78 HS LEGEND

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    hes running a ginormous turbo huh??
     
  15. philyphreak2127

    philyphreak2127 Back in the Game

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    it is pretty big. I couldn't find the measurements of it though looked but haven't found where he had posted them. its a holset h1c if that helps. Seriously the guy has to be one of the best drivers I have ever heard of. 11.20 on only 279 hp in a gutted ef hatch. Now he is up to a little over 300 hp in the same car on less boost.
     
  16. INJEN78

    INJEN78 HS LEGEND

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    his torque is slow to rise to peak due to the fact the turbo is sooo big,,takes long to get full boost..if he went smaller hed probably have better times
     
  17. philyphreak2127

    philyphreak2127 Back in the Game

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    wouldn't the turbo flow less cfm though?
     
  18. INJEN78

    INJEN78 HS LEGEND

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    itd accelerate quicker...
    im not saying this is FACT..its just my thought
     
  19. philyphreak2127

    philyphreak2127 Back in the Game

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    oh your right. it would spool quicker and hit peak boost way earlier but at the sametime that could possibly create slower times do to the fact that he would hit peak boost well before shift point rather than pulling hard all the way until he shifts. But I kind of like the idea of having a quick spooling turbo. Its kinda like having the benefits of a supercharger because it hits peak boost quick but not the disadvantages of drawing its power from the crank itself.
     
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