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Timing issue - help solve and get $10

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> ED-EF / DA' started by Jorsher, Apr 26, 2010.

  1. Jorsher

    Jorsher New Member

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    This is my first time posting here, so let me describe the pertinent information of the build.

    B18B block
    B18C5 head
    B18C1 cams
    22T water pump
    GSR timing belt
    TD68U distributor (OBD1 GSR)

    Engine #1
    First time we started it, it idled perfectly and I was able to get the ignition timing correct by fully retarding the distributor. Later we found out the block was cracked and there was a leak in the head, so I tore it down and "fixed" the problem with the head. When I started it again, with the distributor fully retarded it was still not enough to get the ignition timing correct.

    Built a new engine with a fresh block and fresh head.

    Start it, and it idles around 100-250rpm with the distributor fully retarded. If I advance it at all, it won't start.

    I'm using the firewall mounted map sensor so that I didn't have to extend the wiring to reach the throttle body. Since it worked the first time I don't think it'd be the issue. There is only one vacuum line ran to anything, and that's the one from the firewall to the back of the intake manifold. The PCV port is blocked off because I'm running a catch can, and if I unblock it the idle jumps to 1000rpm but the ignition timing is off.

    If I give the car gas, it'll sound like it's misfiring then when I let off the gas it can't catch itself and dies.

    The distributor is newly remanufactured, and I've tried swapping a known-good ignition module and ignition coil.

    What I'm not understanding is why it worked fine the first time but will not now.

    With the timing light it seems like it's around 12-16 degrees too advanced.

    When checking the mechanical timing, when the cams are lined up, the tdc mark is maybe 2-4 degrees advanced, but I can turn the crank back so that it lines up without moving the cams.

    I'm considering retarding the cam gears a tooth and seeing if I will then be able to get the ignition timing set. Will this cause a performance loss? Any other suggestions?
     
  2. AHHVTEC

    AHHVTEC Well-Known Member VIP

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    have you tried more than one ecu on it, and your from huntsville right
     
  3. Jorsher

    Jorsher New Member

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    No I haven't tried another ECU because I don't have one.

    Yes, I'm from Huntsville. How'd you know? Happen to have a loaner chipped or OBD1 GSR ECU, and/or an OBD1 distributor so I can rule that out? :p
     
  4. AHHVTEC

    AHHVTEC Well-Known Member VIP

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    nah, sure dont man im a member of hvs and noticed your name.wish i could help more thats more of a problem than i normal run into so i dont deal with it enough, i guess worse case if you cant find help here theres always trackmasters lol
     
  5. Jorsher

    Jorsher New Member

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    Yeah, I'm not big on paying shops my hard-earned money. Usually can figure it out on my own. I'll play around with this another week or two and if I can't figure it out or find an answer, then I guess I'll take it somewhere.

    Hate having a freshly-built LS-VTEC CRX and not being able to drive it...
     
  6. D16SiHatch

    D16SiHatch New Member

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    if you can't retard ignition timing enough with the dizzy then that tells you the mechanical timing is advanced. you have the right idea by retarding the cam gears a tooth.
     
  7. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    So you are saying you are not TDC synced between crank and cams? This could be the problem.

    Also....if you installed a new set up back at that retarded point you were with the initial set up...then you gave yourself no room to move it in the retarded direction. I believe your timing was back to 16 degrees after plugging the battery back in (but don't quote me on this....been trying to learn about it over the past few weeks) The theory is you cannot just manipulate the timing without fooling the ECU (like jumping the service connector in my 92 Civic) So putting the timing where the last set up was before start up may have hindered you from finding the right timing
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  8. D16SiHatch

    D16SiHatch New Member

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    correct ^ you do have to jump the service connector before you adjust ignition timing otherwise the ecu will basically compensate for what movement you made and bring it right back to where it was prior to your adjustment. if you are mechanically in time then i suspect this is quite likely where your problem lies.
     
  9. Jorsher

    Jorsher New Member

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    Nawp, problem was I was using the firewall-mounted MAP sensor instead of the one on the TB, and none of the vacuum lines were going to it. ODDLY, I was able to drive the car and it idled just fine set up like this last time. Maybe because it was colder? No damn clue.

    Anyway, I got it finished, and it's a fun little ride indeed.

    Since everyone likes pics:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Now just for boost...
     
  10. catdaddy77

    catdaddy77 New Member

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    looks good, but lower it and why in heavens did you not clean the tranny when you mated it to that clean block?!!
     
  11. Jorsher

    Jorsher New Member

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    I don't care about aesthetics :p

    Lowering it and a clean trans won't make it faster.

    Turbo is next.
     
  12. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    You had a USDM Throttle Body and a JDM firewall MAP sensor? Or just never hooked up the vacuum line from a JDM Throttle Body to the firewall MAP? In any event, glad it runs better :thumbsup:
     
  13. Jorsher

    Jorsher New Member

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    Nah, CRX has the MAP mounted on the firewall from the factory, USDM/JDM doesn't matter. The TB I have is missing the bung on the throttle body so the vacuum line wasn't going to anything.

    Just extended the wires to use the TB MAP and runs well :)
     
  14. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    USDM B series Throttle bodies have no bung...there is a difference. I own both types. The USDM takes a MAP mounted directly on the top.
     
  15. Jorsher

    Jorsher New Member

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    Interesting.

    What's the point of the hole next to the idle adjustment screw? I don't see why they'd have an unfiltered source of air, and figured it was for a vacuum line.
     
  16. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    The JDM has two vacuum lines on the top of the TB. One is for the firewall MAP. A USDM TB has only one vacuum on top and a receptacle to receive a MAP with a nipple on it.

    Here's my old JDM TB with a USDM MAP that I made a bracket for and just ran the vacuum line under the MAP and plugged it intot he nipple. Now I have a USDM and the MAP mounts right on the top (no need for a vacuum)

    [​IMG]

    And here's a pic of my current TB (only pic that almost shows the TB that I currently have)

    [​IMG]
     
  17. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    And I agree with the lowering of the car. No it wont give you more power but it sits it down right. No need for flare (I'm with you on that) but the looks and handling are worth it. Some Neuspeed Race springs look great on a CRX. Add some shocks (I rolled stocks until they were SHOT)

    What size are your wheels? Do you know the offset? Tire size? Hard to tell but it looks like they're sticking out. 7.5" rim? Hard to lower a CRX and look good (yes only my opinion boys) with 7.5" wheels (unless you like taco'd in rims that wear the inner 20% of the tire) I love GSR fat fives with 2-2.5" lowering on your CRX.
     
  18. Jorsher

    Jorsher New Member

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    Mine has the top middle hole, but no bung to it. I assume you had that running to the charcoal canister thing? I'm going to block it off as I have no use for it.

    Wheels are 16x7 but I'll probably be upgrading to 15x7 with a taller sidewall in the future. I don't care for the tucked crap and will probably just lower it enough it looks normal, not trying to slam it either.
     
  19. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    Silly Rabbit....this ain't slammed and it 2.25" drop on 15's. I have seen plenty of Hondas slammed way way down. Mine is still very functional and it wont be mistaken for a off road vehicle

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2010
  20. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    Do you know the offset of your rims? It looks low (like below +35)

    And yes...the vacuum line that both of my TB share goes to the charcoal canister and out to the evap purge solenoid
     
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