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To build or not to build

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by khoda, Sep 21, 2007.

  1. khoda

    khoda New Member

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    Allright so i am new to the site but not to hondas. Unfortunitly i am new to b-series. I have only built single d's and one dual d and one sw20 so bear with me.

    i just aquired a b18a1 ls block from a 91. got it with low compression most likely shot rings so i am going to do a full rebuild on it.

    but i want to know what everyones thoughts are on building the ls as is or go ls-v with it..i know this is a non-vtec site but im sure most of you have had experiences with both.

    also how reliable is the bottom end what pistons/rod combo ect... would you guys/girls recomend. im not going to touch the head until i decide on which route i want to take. this is going in my 91 crx hf and the motor in it is fine so i am not on any deadline i am going to take this slowly for reliability. my goals are 250-270whp. nothing to outrageous.

    so any input on what you would do and what parts.

    thanks
    stuart
     
  2. khoda

    khoda New Member

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    sorry i posted this on nonvtec.com as well (copy/paste)

    i have heard that the pistoons are the weak point? but in anycase i am definitly replacing the rod bolts/headbolts ect.. with arp. but lets say i want room to grow what piston combo would go well with the tt h beams ( love those rods)

    not really on the whole "VTAk" bandwagon so i might as well stay. Now with that being said the head sucks from what i hear, so a good p/p and vj along with a whole valve train change is in order too..
     
  3. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    werd. if youre going to be driving this everyday, go VTEC. It evens out your idle and helps with fuel economy, but still allows you to have high end power.

    If you are planning on driving this every day, with a 250whp goal, youre definitely gonna want to go the VTEC route.

    Outside of a stroker kit this may be difficult to pull off.

    If i had your goals, and i wanted to stay N/A id probably do this:

    BrianCrower.com (1.96L stroker kit with 11:1 pistons)
    B16 Head, Ported for N/A
    Pro Series B-Series DOHC VTEC (Skunk2 Pro2 Cams)
    Manley Valvetrain (I have a friend i can get this from, so i dont have a link)


    At this point you might be CLOSE to 230-240whp....tuning might make up for the last 10, but you never know.
     
  4. driftslut6969

    driftslut6969 New Member

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    Ive always wanted to see an all nitrous car.....try that.
     
  5. brian11to1

    brian11to1 Senior Member

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    I agree
     
  6. Matts96HB

    Matts96HB . Moderator VIP

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    240-270 hp all motor is really not logical with a Honda.

    Sure its possible, but outrageously expensive. Your best bet for that would be an H22 swap I would think. Start out around 200 horse, and with the right amount of time/effort you could get there with some serious coin. 3k to get the swap in, and probably another 3-4k to get to that number.

    A more logical solution would be to put new rings/pistons into your tired b18a1, replace the rod bolts, and boost. A turbo setup can cost you anywhere from $~700-$4,000 depending on who you are, and who you know.
     
  7. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    i dunno 240whp is still pushing it with the lack of available parts for the h22...it would be more cost effective to go with the b-series due to availability of upgrades.
     
  8. dtob

    dtob New Member

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    Ya the LS rod bolts are M8 and Vtec bolts are M9 so 1mm difference.

    I LOVE my ls/vtec and it pulls hard all the way to 8500rpm. I wouldn't rev one that high with stock rods though. 8k is about it. Make sure to get all the proper stuff to make it reliable though. Water pump, oil pump from a dohc vtec or type r. Also plastigauge all your bearings and make sure they are all within spec.
     
  9. khoda

    khoda New Member

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    Sorry guys, i am going turbo for sure. i should have mentioned that. Im not goin to waste my time with all motor. not enough time or money for an all motor with my goals
     
  10. Matts96HB

    Matts96HB . Moderator VIP

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    Good. Boost the LS, you'll get there with the right tuning.
     
  11. khoda

    khoda New Member

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    definitly boost and a good tune..heres my list so far..sugestions are welcomed

    bottom end:
    -brand new stock pistons/rings
    -tuner toys rods
    -arp harware for all (rod bolts, head bolts ect..)
    -new oem gaskets
    -new type-r water pump/oil pump
    -new oem bearings

    head:
    -b16 head
    -P/P and oem seals
    -skunk2 dual valve springs
    -skunk2 Titanium retainers
    -skunk2 Stage2 Camshafts
    -skunk2 Camgears.
    -new oem timing belt
     
  12. khoda

    khoda New Member

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    Did a little searching and blanco you sugested this to another member for a stock ls head

    " Crower 402T cams, springs, and retainers.
    Cam gears of your choice
    Gasket match port/polish, valve job, and lapped stock valves
    OEM Honda seals
    ARP head studs
    ARP rod bolts
    New stock pistons
    OEM Honda bearings, gaskets, and seals. "

    i am leaning towards staying non-vtec right now then mabey in the future doing the change over. once the motor is broke in and i have peiced the turbo kit together and ready for the install.

    and just a question: whats everyones opinion on the gt28rs. i know a couple of sw20 guys running them and they love them.

    allright so i am going to just stick with upgrading my rod bolts along with a set of new oem rods and pistons/rings since they are sufficiant to my 250+/- goal. i am going to focus alot of my work into the head then. with a good p/p, cams, springs retainers, oem valve seals and gears.

    but i was looking and i dont see the 402t cams on crowers site. i see 401t's
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2007
  13. khoda

    khoda New Member

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    tearing her apart i noticed she has a new timing belt, water pump, and oil pump.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2007
  14. dtob

    dtob New Member

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    I don't know if the TT rods will work because the stock rods have a pressed in wrist pin and the TT have a floating pin. You would need to get aftermarket pistons to use them.
     
  15. Matts96HB

    Matts96HB . Moderator VIP

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    Suggestion. Instead of building the new head, maybe take the extra $$$ and get some good forged pistons. JE and CP are both good brands. Will hold up better than the stock. And you can run more through that motor safely.
     
  16. khoda

    khoda New Member

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    Allright so i got a little further in my teardown today(works been keeping me from my projects) but anyways i found that the block needs a hone for sure. the cylinder walls are fubered. oh well here is a pic, check out the vertical scratches. its bad.
    [​IMG]
    but as for the rebuild i decided i am going with
    Wiseco forged pistons part# WISK542M81
    Tuner toy rods
    im going to powerwash the block and have it honed and decked.
    OEM bearings

    i am going to do a minor p/p on the head while its off and put new valve seals in it and run that until i get my vtec head or decide on something else.
     
  17. khoda

    khoda New Member

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    i was just looking at it and i may need to bore it with these scars. so i may run the 81.50 pistons.
     
  18. khoda

    khoda New Member

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    Allright so here is my list. let me know if theres anything you would change and why. goal is 250ish with a good tune

    -tuner toy rods
    -wiseco stock bore pistons
    -typer water/oil pump
    -crower 403 cams (part# cro-62403-2)
    -crower valve train (part# cro-84162)
    -P/P by me
    -Valves---->?? havent found a set yet,..open to sugestions
    -egay cam gears,..probly skunk 2
    -Complete OEM seals from oil pan up
    -ARP head bolts/rod bolts
    -Cheap azz IM for individual throttle body (either a stock IM or an OBX one) from a 2001 Suzuki GSX-R (thanks homemadeturbo.com and previous set ups)until i get my turbo kit situated
    -cheap azz headers (turbo soon)
    -endyn block posts (why not,...havent had any probs and cheap insurance)

    TURBO:
    -looking at the GT28RS w/t25 flange for ease (a couple sw20 guys run it and love it) plus i like the simplicity of an internal wastegate, espeacially for only a 250rwhp goal)

    EMS:
    -havent decided. this is the only area i have not the slightest clue. i havent decided if i want to stay with non-obd w/ turbo edit or something or covert to obd-1 w/ hondata s300.
    any good ideas would be awesome


    Oh yeah, and to introduce myself here are my other rides. CRXMRDR on ALLIANCE_16

    87 CRX SI: [​IMG]
    88 CRX HF:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    91MR2-T:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    98 Hinda passport: [​IMG]
    02 RSX:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    recent (91 CRX HF:
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Matts96HB

    Matts96HB . Moderator VIP

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    Nice rides. Lovin the 88 hf.

    Anyway, as far as the build it looks like you have a pretty good parts list.
    That motor def. needs a hone. I was going to say just have the shop break the glaze but it looks like it needs a lil more than that.
     
  20. brian11to1

    brian11to1 Senior Member

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    Where in MO do you live?
     
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