Today's B Series Myth, 0wned.

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money is made from rags that are broken down and tumbled a bunch of times. Then they are soaked and heated, soaked and heated, pressed, pressed again.. and again, until its comes out and then its strung up into huge barrels. I watched it on TV like 2 weeks ago.
 
Originally posted by jeffie7@Jun 20 2003, 10:11 PM
rob noticed he was getting near the end of the injector so he pumped up the fuel pressure to add more fuel with less duty cycle

WTF? that's the WORST thing you could possibly do!!!!

what a moron.

if you top out your duty cycle at like 80%, YOU NEED BIGGER INJECTORS!!!!

higher pressure does NOT mean more fuel.
 
ok READ what it says lets try this again

first off I was talking about the 211 to 405HP #s they DID NOT TURN UP THE BOOST! read it again they did however turn up the boost to make the 477 but to go from 211 to 405 they only made Vtec work and also added 2degrees of timing and more fuel the boost stayed the same
thats why if you read at the end I also said

"jeffies quote" 211HP to 405 with only adding more fuel and 2degrees of timing Vtec owns "end jeffies quote"

also going from 14PSI at 211HP to 19PSI at 477HP is a big big big big big ass friggin jump in power when it comes to the SAME SIZE TURBO!

B yes jacking up the FP is a no no but when it was built over 8 years ago "book copyrighted in 96 but motor built before that" theres really not much they can do shit they were running what looks to be a Delta wastegate "eak!" then again tempest use to run them on the old SOHC motors that ran 11s once again gotta use what you can get your hands on

any idea if they made injectors able to flow fuel for 500+HP HONDAS back in the early 90s?

"Edit" P.S yes higher FP does mean more fuel you just can't control it well thats why my friend was able to run 11.9s with 440s

"edit part two" P.S.S before you reply yes you can do it lol as I told you Inline Pro does it all the time even if hondata says you can't some how they are able to run 400+HP out of 440-550CC injectors ofcourse they blow up after awhile but hey if it was cheap to build who cares right?another reason to halfass everything www.inlinepro.com the best place to buy 5G paperweights "blocks with holes after 2 months"
 
this says it all....

fuelpumplitresmin.gif




the higher the pressure, the less fuel you are actually getting.

i'm running 860cc's in my new setup, and a stock fuel pressure regulator, at stock rail pressure.
 
Other disadvantages of running high fuel pressure:

Fuel injectors require more current to open meaning they run hotter and are less reliable as a result.
Fuel injectors can take longer to open.
There is a greater tendancy for the fuel to leak past the injector seals.
There is a greater chance of rupturing the diaphram of the FPR (usually rated to 100 psi) dumping fuel into the intake.



hondata > most of us. I trust it.

http://www.hondata.com/techfuelpump.html
 
more proof....

fuelpumppowerpotential.gif



higher pressure, less horsepower, all the while starving the motor.


I would throw that book out. writen in 96 or not, its a piece of shit.
 
I never said to go by it =) but once again look at inline pro

it CAN be done

would I do it... HELL NO!

bottom like Vtec OWNS LS
 
Originally posted by Slammed89Integra+Jun 20 2003, 06:47 PM-->
liquid00meth
@Jun 19 2003, 12:43 PM
Part of the point is that they are the exact same motor 80% of the rev range, and the GSR is only slightly better for the last 20

I came in this ridiculus post late but yeah, rational thinking is needed.

Yeah, what part of the rev range are you in when you are racing? the top end right..... So yeah, if you have a good clutch, can shift fast and etc then you won't drop out of the powerband and 20 extra whopping hp at the top of the powerband(which you are in) is like night and fucking day.

If you have rode in an ls equipped civic you will soon to find out it goes up from 1-5k a lot faster then 5-7k, because they lack the top end, and yeah the top end is everything y0 when it comes to actual drag racing. That is where turbo comes in my friend for the ls.

uhh? Ridiculous post? my post is fine thanks. The whole MAIN POINT of the post is that is the LS is better for the money


I never said it was a better motor hands down, nutjob.


and uhhh for for jeffie's "200hp just from vtec" story.

That is COMPLETELY distorted. The ONLY reason that the gain is there is because the way the valve timing is arranged. Honda has the VTEC valve timing etc there for a reason, it's because the other set of timing sucks in the high rev rage. When the PROPER timing is then set, yes you gain 200hp. It's not because vtec is the baddest fucking thing on the street, it's simply because the motor is now running properly. Thats like fucking saying, oh, uhhh yea, I forget to plug one of the spark plugs in. I plugged it in and 200 HP GAIN! HOLY SHIT VTEC RULES!. The better timing vtec offers does take better advantage of boost, but what the fuck. You can do the same thing by installing turbo cams and adjusting the timing/ignition on the LS motor. VTEC is just automated tuning.

It all depends on how much your talking about modifying the honda technology and the motor, now that we are talking about boost. The original post was just meant to show that the GSR is alot of money for not too much, and for someone trying to run on a budget, the LS could be a much wiser choice.
 
Originally posted by liquid00meth@Jun 21 2003, 08:06 PM
It all depends on how much your talking about modifying the honda technology and the motor, now that we are talking about boost. The original post was just meant to show that the GSR is alot of money for not too much, and for someone trying to run on a budget, the LS could be a much wiser choice.

yup. after you add boost it becomes a battle of who wants to spend more $.

this thread got WAY ot.
 
its weird how I've yet to see an LS push over 400WHP and know people have changed over FULLY built "aka resleeved, rods, pistons, fully custom turbo setups" LS motors, becuase of running into power issues "not making enough"

all of that turbo stuff is not to show that the GSR motor is far superior but that its a great motor to boost since some one said it was not

bottom line if you want a cheap motor the LS is a great motor to get if you want more power you can always add an B16 head

then again if your not looking to mod out your motor in a civic chassis an LS motor will run mid to low 15s with a GSR motor they can run low 14s dip into the 13s if youre a great driver with a good "not worn" engine

why don't you compair B16 VS LS I think that would be a better match the B16 is a few hundred more then the LS and once again its faster in the 1/4 mile even with the total lack of torque and yes when auto xing the LS owns the b16 but most people here want all out speed

keep in mind most people who swap motors are looking for more power and that more power turns into a drug I don't know one person who has swaped a motor and been happy for more then a few weeks "ok maybe ESOL" hehe
my goal was to run 280HP at the flywheel everyday ok well Im there and now I want 400 and once Im there Im guessing 450...

LS then turns into the wrong pick becuase you spend even more money in the end to make the power you want

BTW I would like to see some cam specs I bet Vtec cams are pretty close to LS cams when its on the small cam lobes

also my B16 makes 170LBS of torque at 4K RPM with fully stock cams/cam gears "vtec kicks in at 5800" not bad for that really crappy none vtec part of the cam
 
B, you're looking at one side of the equation with your fuel flow graphs.

That's the PUMP'S flow potential. If you have an Intank pump, with an inline booster pump, you CAN use higher FP without adverse effects, and long as total pump flow is still rated high enough at the used Fuel Pressures.

The injector's WILL PUT OUT MORE FUEL when the pressure is turned up. It's pure, simple physics, as long as there is enough pump behind it to supply the needed fuel at the pressure level.

By upping the pressure, they are resolving the issue of not having enough injector. They are jsut putting a higher load and less flow potential on the pump which shows that they had overkill on the pump, but skimped on the injector sizing.

:spin:
 
No marriage yet, but I'm PRETTY sure I'll be engaged in a few more months.

I'm designing a ring in my spare time to have made by Heather's uncle. He's a jeweler... He made H's mom a ring that was appraised for 13 grand for aobut 2500 bucks... I'll let him make it, and save a grip. ;)
 
I love how they appraised for 13 grand yet when you go to sale it..... you know how that goes
its only worth what a REAL person will pay

then again you might get 18K for it =)
 
Ok back to the beginning how you said gsr has only 20hp over the ls only at the higher rpms. Is this because of vtec. If this is because of vtec can't you just get a vtec controller and drop the vtec engagement point to lets say 3000rpms. Won't that make more power?
 
nooo....vtec does jack shit at low rpms, it would just kinda bog. but jus an fyi, vtec on a b18c kicks in at 4400 rpms, and the secondaries kick in at about 5750-5800 rpms. from my experience with the motor, the secondaries feel like they make more of a difference than vtec on the gsr motor. so to answer your question keehnel, vtec does account for the 20 extra hp, but the secondaries have to do with it too.
 
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