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Total Seal Rings

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by lsvtec, Nov 11, 2002.

  1. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    I found my oil consumption problem. My rings still have not set or they are not keeping oil out of the combustion chamber. I am unimpressed with these rings considering how much more than Honda rings they cost.
     
  2. CRX-YEM

    CRX-YEM Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    just goes to show that not using oem honda products isn't always better
     
  3. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    Amen, I wish I had used the OEM rings instead of listening to the hype some of the guys in Longmont gave to Total Seal.
     
  4. volkrays

    volkrays Junior Member

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    How many miles has it been since u had your motor in?
    THe honing process contributes alot to the break-in period of the rings.
    How much oil is it burning?

    I have a built ZC with JE rings and it took about 8,000 miles to break-in. The first couple weeks that i had it, it burned about 1 quart per 100 miles, that ish was burning more oil than gas!!!. But i now have about 11,000 miles on it now and it's alot better than before. but still burn about 1 quart per 1,500 miles.

    Hope this info helps.
     
  5. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    11k and you are burning thatmuch oil? that isn't good man
     
  6. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    I have about 2200 miles on the rebuilt engine. I am burning a quart to a quart anda half per tank of gas. The car smokes like a mofo above 6000 RPM. I broke the rebuilt engine in by following the directions posted in our FAQ to the letter.
     
  7. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Just curious... what does your leakdown test look like? My car shows the same symptoms, but my leakdown shows no leakage in 1, 3, 4 and just a tad in #2. I'm guessing that it's my valve stem seals or guides- but if your leakdown shows the same as mine, then it might be the rings too.
     
  8. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    I have not done a leakdown, but I did check my valve stem seals, they are all in good shape, besides if your valve seals or guides were bad the engine would smoke at startup or when you get on the gas from a light, not just at high RPM. The engine feels like it is getting good compression, the only problem is that when I let off the gas after pushing it kinda hard the engine smokes really bad. Kinda like the oil control ring is not doing its job without the pressure of compression or combustion.
     
  9. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Hmm. Mine smokes at high rpm, but it also lets a tiny bit out at idle...
     
  10. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    Mine does not smoke at all at idle or at startup, only at high rpm. I have a few things to test, like when does the smoke start, does it smoke only when I let off the throttle or all the time, and I am doing a compression test as soon as I can afford to get the tool for it. Probably this weekend. It has been suggested to me by a co-worker that I am getting ring flutter or that my PCV valve my be sucking oil, I am going to check the PCV as well, not much i can do to check ring flutter.
     
  11. gtpilot

    gtpilot Member

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    I have used Total Seal Rings for several years and I have never experienced any of these problems. There are two different honing patterns for the different type of rings - are you sure you used the correct pattern?

    Was this an overbore with a new piston or a hone job with a used piston? It is hard to get any ring to seat with tapered, oval or worn cylinder walls and worn pitsons...the clearnaces need to be correct.

    When you have less leakdown, you should have less blow by and pressure in your crankcase...do make sure you PVC valve and catch tank are free of obstruction.

    Kirk
     
  12. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    I am not sure I used the correct honing pattern but the literature that came with the rings did not specify a honing pattern so I used Honda's. The are used pistons out of a JDM B16A automatic with less than 30K on it. Not an overbore. I checked and double checked all the ring gaps and the piston to wall clearance. All of these numbers were within spec. As stated before I am checking my PCV valve this weekend when I will have to money to replace it if necessary.
     
  13. gtpilot

    gtpilot Member

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    Seems to me the Honda honing pattern calls for 56 to 60 degrees while the Total Seal honing pattern is 28 to 32 degrees - I can check this stuff tonight after I get home.

    The honing pattern for the Total Seals should have been on the inside front cover of the literautre that came in their box - I have never recieved a ring set without them. Take aread of this and see if you followed their breakin procedure...

    Kirk

    Total Seal Rings - Honing/Break In
     
  14. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    I never saw that total seal's take 2000-3000 miles to break in. That is my problem, I switched to Symthetic after 1000 miles. I am goig back to natural oil for the next 2000 miles to see if that fixes my issue. Thanks for the site. I know for sure that that breakin procedure was not in with my rings. We had a how to break in a rebuilt engine here on the site and I followed it to the letter, but I cannot seem to find it now. One question for you, when you are breaking a rebuilt engine in, how to do you drive it? Our article said to drive it easy and increase the revs you use slowing as the mileage increases.
     
  15. gtpilot

    gtpilot Member

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    For race motors, they get two 15 minute session to get broken in and seated...first session no revs above 5500 and all throttle at 1/2 to make good pressure against the rings...second session increase the revs by 250 RPM per lap to 8000. After that, let her rip...I get twice the ring life as I do bearing life breaking them in that way. I don't use synthetic oil in my race motors, but it is for a reason unrelated to the rings.

    Street, I drive no more than 4000 RPM with no more than 1/2 throttle for the first 800 miles using non-synth oil. I changed the oil (again non-synth) and start increasing the revs 500 RPM per 100 miles so that aroung 1400 miles I am running 7000 RPM. I only do light load pulls on the motor when first starting to get to this range - i.e., lower gears and lower throttle, just letting the motor spin up freely and trying to notice any vibrations or noises that are abnormal. After this, I use my judgement as to how hard to rev the motor - it is still tight.

    At 3000 miles I take a leakdown on the cylinders when it is hot - if it is not below 3% - I do another 2000 miles on non-syth oil just to make me comfortable that I have got a good seat. Don't know that it makes a difference, but it has always worked for me.

    Kirk
     
  16. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    Thanks for the info, I am going back to dino oil and back to breaking the engine in.
     
  17. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Hmm. I leak just at or less than 1% on 1, 3, and 4... and about 6% on #2. I probably need to replace the rings, but I don't think they're the cause of my losing oil.
     
  18. lsvtecvx

    lsvtecvx Junior Member

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    where do u get dyno oil from? What company makes it?
     
  19. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    dino as in dinosaur or natural oil.
    Leakdown could also be valve stem seals or guides. Are you hearing a hiss through the intake or exhaust manifold?
     
  20. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Hard to tell... but definitely not through the exhaust manifold. I'll just have to bring the date of the head build forward a bit. ;)
     
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