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Traction Bars

Discussion in 'Wheels / Suspension / Tires / Brakes' started by dragoon118, Jun 12, 2003.

  1. dragoon118

    dragoon118 Member

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    hi,
    wondering if anyone has had experiance with traction bars for a honda.
    i know they take out the wheel hop. I was wonder if they are for drag only or will they work for road racing? how do traction bars effect daily driving? will i have problems with turning or the suspension hitting anything? what compnies make them?
    thanks for any help.
    Ac
     
  2. knowledge

    knowledge Senior Member

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    I want a set of Z10 traction bars. They do not effect turning or anything.
    www.z10eng.com
     
  3. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    ive never used them or nothing but i think it limits movement of the front suspension, like holds the suspention arm in place, making it rigid. i think it wont really help you in autocross unless the track is very smooth; no bumps, and you have some large tires on some 14in rims.
     
  4. asmallsol

    asmallsol Super Moderator

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    If they do not affect suspention at all (like how the site says) I would think they would help alot in autoX. In autoX, your tire pressure is normally really high, 40+psi. In drag, you have about 20psi. Reason is in drag you want tons of traction and you dont care how stiff the side wall is, in autoX, your puting great forces on the side wall so you strenthen them with air pressure. This results in no tire roll over however on your launch, you have to go at very low RPMs otherwise your not going to get any traction. With these, you could launch at much higher RPMS and put ever pony to the ground. At a few autoX's I would have had a good 2 seconds off my time if I had better traction off my launch.
     
  5. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Also incorrect. It doesn't hold the suspenSion arm in place in a way that would significantly restrict movement- that would just be stupid. It prevents the lower control arms from moving forward and backward as much as they want to, which keeps your suspension arms moving up and down without unwanted play in the system.
     
  6. knowledge

    knowledge Senior Member

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    Oh come on now Professor C! Wow noise?! What I meant is that his turning radius wont change. Nothing will rub! Put polyeurothane bushings in too and they make noise! They squeek like hell(well depending on how much moisture your region has).
     
  7. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    If you look at the design of the Z10 bars, you'll know what I mean. Imagine that you can see through the front of the car, all the way through to the lower control arms and the installed traction bar setup. Squat in front of a car that has the Z10s installed and you'll see that the radius of motion is NOT the same as the OEM LCAs. The Z10 bars move through a larger radius arc than the LCAs, which means that they will bind a bit as the suspension moves. From my experience, the setup doesn't really restrict your turning radius or anything else, but if you think about it- the toe and caster will change as the front wheels move up and down. Is the change bad? That, I don't know. I haven't cared to sit down, draw it out, and make calculations to determine exactly how the wheels' motion will change because of the Z10 setup. I just know that the toe and caster changes won't be the same as stock.

    The JIMFAB bars seem to share the same pivot axis as the lower control arms, meaning that they will rotate through the same arc of motion. This would make the radius arm and the lower control arm act like one big A arm, and have less chance for binding.

    Here's a graphic I made a while back using my old suspension to illustrate:

    [​IMG]

    I've posted all this before on the board somewhere... I don't care to search for it though.

    Are the Z10 bars bad? No. I had them on my car for at least 20k miles (don't remember when I put them on), and they worked great. Wheel hop was all but eliminated, and the car felt MUCH more stable and responsive, even at ridiculously high speeds. The Z10 setup is still very solid, and a very nice addition to your Civic.
     
  8. dragoon118

    dragoon118 Member

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    does anyone have any experiance with the jimfab set up. i just trying to decide which design to get.
     
  9. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Mine aren't on yet. I'll tell you when I drive the car.
     
  10. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    jim fab rocks. Geoff, who designed the z10 bars, runs jim fab bars. that says something
     
  11. dragoon118

    dragoon118 Member

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    just wanted to know if the jibfab traction will bind any where? i looked at hybrid honda's story on the z10 version and calesta's post. do the arm positons really make that much of a difference. it just that when i called comtech for their radius arms they said their's was drag only no street use.
    I want a streetable one where the arms won't hit the wheels if i make a turn at full lock.
     
  12. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    no. the jim fabs dont bind at all, thats what makes them a better deisgn.
     
  13. hcivic.com

    hcivic.com Senior Member

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    thats not entirly true the 89-91 civic can bind and is not recomended for the street
     
  14. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Yes, pivot point locations really matter. Think it through in your head and you'll understand why.

    I don't think the 4G Civic bars will bind. The last time I saw a set installed, the pivot points looked very close to stock, and the stock bars don't bind- plus the JimFab bars use a more freely moving pivot than the stock setup.

    So... for traction bars:

    JimFab > Z10 > Totem

    Unless you have an H22 in your Civic, then:

    Totem > JimFab (won't work) > Z10 (won't work)

    Whoops, you only have one choice with an H22.

    If you're looking at raw strength of material:

    JimFab > Z10 > Totem

    Those JimFab bars are THICK. I have a set in the back seat of the Civic right now.
     
  15. WiggerMan

    WiggerMan Member

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    Does anyone have the link for JimFab at all or does he have a site yet? Thanks

    Yahoo is your friend... found it
     
  16. dragoon118

    dragoon118 Member

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    my biggest question is can i use the jimfab traction on a daily driver?
     
  17. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Yes, you can use it as a daily driver. I took my car out for a spin yesterday with the JimFab bars on it, and you can barely tell that they're there, at least in terms of binding or suspension interference. If you look at the picture I posted of pivot points, the JimFab lines up perfectly with the pivot axis of the lower control arm. The whole setup is also extremely beefy. That sucker's thick compared to the Z10 system!
     
  18. asmallsol

    asmallsol Super Moderator

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    well back to the orginal question about if they are alright for autoX. I reject my orginal statement and say no because they are illegal in almost every class except for basicly the purpose built race cars.
     
  19. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    The original question had nothing to do with autocross...
     
  20. seanjuan

    seanjuan Senior Member

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    does the jimfab application require that the lower radiator mount be removed?
    I was reading a mag article where they installed a z10 on a crx and had to remove that but the z10 has a built in radiator support.

    is that just for crx/4th gen?

    I have a 5th gen, I haven't looked closely to see for myself yet, but I'm seriously considering getting either the z10 or the jimfab (probably jimfab now that I know about it and that it cost less)

    what kind of "noise" do the traction bars make?

    edit: on jimfab's site it says the crossmember is compatible with 99-00 si... what about a 92 with a b16?
     
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