Trouble starting, too cold or gas problem?

[Ichigo1174]

The wire tuck may still be the culprit. But no FITV is definitely not helping cold temp start ups.

On the driver side Is mostly lights and the resister box for the injectors.
I finished that side and went for a drive and I had absolutely no problems.
Then on the right side I cut and extended the wires for the lights, and then for the AC, and relays. (I'm just going to remove them, I don't have any AC components and I honestly don't plan on putting it in).
I relocated the fuse box to under the dash and the only wires I cut was the one that plugs in for the fan relay, and the one that goes to the battery.

Hopefully tomorrow will be nice so I can look and get it done a bit more. I'm removing the AC wires and relays, I'm going to check the grounds, see if I can get a OBD0 or 1 TB.

 

[Dual-500]

Not starting when it's real cold is classic symptoms of lean. Fast idle could be dirty FITV or IAC valves or fuel delivery. If it's lean it could manifest as fast idle. If the valves are dirty and not closing they are passing too much air, which will also make it lean as the TPS will tell injectors to idle it mixture wise.

Could be any of the above. Also could be low fuel pressure leaning it down and that would make it a hard start mutha too.

All you can do is walk through it - eliminate one thing at a time. Cleaning the control valves is a real good way to start. Changing fuel filter, then if it's not right check fuel pressure.

It's not enough fuel or too much air for the fast idle - or a little of both. The cold start sounds much like it's just lean and starving for fuel. Cuz once it hits it runs or warms up a little and runs.

Definitely want to get the temp sensor line corrected. That's another table the ECU looks at for mixture control.

 

[Ichigo1174]

I didn't think about the temp sensor affecting the ECU...
It always gave me problems and half way worked but it never threw a code.
However it did throw a code when I relocated the fuse box. I'll try to replace more of the wire and see if that helps? When it does like mess up, it shoots up as if it were ht and I can just tap the dash and it goes back to normal. (been like that since I got the car) I'm not sure if it is the wire (it is brittle) or the gauge cluster.

 

[Dual-500]

^ Definitely want to get that fixed. Worst case scenario, the ECU can sense it hot and fatten it up, burn out the cat. Shitty gas mileage too. That's worst case, but wanted you to know.

 

[Ichigo1174]

My gas mileage can't be any worse than it is now.... more or less. I feel that it should be better but yeah. I don't have a cat. 4-2-1 header > test pipe > tanabe cat-back.
So far (if weather is good tomorrow), Do the wires, get a fuel filter, clean the IACV and see about getting another Throttle Body.
Thanks you the help so far.

 

[Dual-500]

When you clean the electronic control valves up - crank it up and disconnect the harness from them, if the valves are stuck the idle won't drop down. If the valves are working, when you disconnect the harness, the idle RPM will drop.

 

[Ichigo1174]

When you clean the electronic control valves up - crank it up and disconnect the harness from them, if the valves are stuck the idle won't drop down. If the valves are working, when you disconnect the harness, the idle RPM will drop.

I will try this after I clean them, Still haven't done it because I have been pretty busy. I wiggled the thermometer wire and it quit throwing the code (and now cranks up on the first turn over) so there is a short in the wire further down then I thought. No big deal. Imma replace a larger section of the wire, and I'm getting another 88 si cluster so I will have a functioning temp guage that doesn't go AWOL from time to time.

Still haven't seen a throttle body with that FITV on it in a crx si? (or in any crx) All the ones around here have the same one as mine.

 

[CAFROG]

Alright... I jumped on one of my trusty sites and found the FITV on a D16A6 is on the back of the IM opposite side of the TB

Go to hondapartscheap.com and look into it. Good diagram pics just pick a 91 Civic Si

 

[skimboard71104]

honda had a recall on 92-95 model civic about rough start when temperature is cold

 

[Ichigo1174]

Alright... I jumped on one of my trusty sites and found the FITV on a D16A6 is on the back of the IM opposite side of the TB

Go to hondapartscheap.com and look into it. Good diagram pics just pick a 91 Civic Si

#10 off of the throttle Body section.
I thought that was the IACV... Wow I guess one of my natural hair color's is blonde. XD

 

[Ichigo1174]

Okay, I took the FITV (located ont the back of the intake manifold) off and cleaned it. However, unlike all of the other pictures I've seen, I've noticed that mine looks as if it were screwed almost all the way in where barely anything can flow in one hole and out to the other.

But since I've cleaned it, it did solve the werid surging idle, still idles a little high, my question is, is it okay to adjust the screw while its running and where would I get a bit from that is a Pentagon? I had one but I don't know where I got it from.

 

[Dual-500]

The hole on the right is what you are looking at and referring to as a "Screw" that's adjustable? Or, are you referring to the idle screw on the throttle body shaft that holds the butterfly?

 

[CAFROG]

I believe the plastic threaded piece should not be seated all the way.

High idle all the time? (aka running temp)

Look into how you adjust idle. My old OBD1 set up was more involved then most think. Unplugging the iacv is one of the steps I had to do in order to adjust idle and make it stay when you restart. Get a Helm's manual for your chassis

Edit: the part you cleaned is the IACV lol. Part number 9 under the throttle body section is you FITV but it idles better

 

[RichieB9280]

I haven't seen anyone ask about fuel. First things first, I was taught to start with the simple things before diving into a complex diagnosis.

What kind of fuel do you buy (regular, premium, super)???

Buying super (93 or higher octane) if your car doesn't require it will cause a hard start. Octane is a flash point rating the higher the number the more temperature required to ignite the fuel. If you put 93 in a vehicle that runs on 86 it will crank much longer before starting.

When your cylinders are ice cold it takes some compression to get your motor to warm up enough to ignite the fuel. I saw someone mention the PGM FI main relay which is also a very common Honda failure. The car will crank but not start. Listen for the click after you turn you key to the "run" or "II" position. If you don't hear a click try to locate it, put your hand on the relay and turn the key on with your hand on the relay. If you don't feel it click that's it.

Dirty fuel injectors could also cause this symptom as the injector can dump too much fuel causing a flood like hard start. I haven't seen this too much on Honda products because Honda rules but it's a possibility.

Good Luck

 

[Dual-500]

I haven't seen anyone ask about fuel. First things first, I was taught to start with the simple things before diving into a complex diagnosis.

What kind of fuel do you buy (regular, premium, super)???

Buying super (93 or higher octane) if your car doesn't require it will cause a hard start. Octane is a flash point rating the higher the number the more temperature required to ignite the fuel. If you put 93 in a vehicle that runs on 86 it will crank much longer before starting.

When your cylinders are ice cold it takes some compression to get your motor to warm up enough to ignite the fuel. I saw someone mention the PGM FI main relay which is also a very common Honda failure. The car will crank but not start. Listen for the click after you turn you key to the "run" or "II" position. If you don't hear a click try to locate it, put your hand on the relay and turn the key on with your hand on the relay. If you don't feel it click that's it.

Dirty fuel injectors could also cause this symptom as the injector can dump too much fuel causing a flood like hard start. I haven't seen this too much on Honda products because Honda rules but it's a possibility.

Good Luck

Maybe.

I'm still connecting the dots between the fast idle and the hard start. Fast idle from dirty control valves in the intake manifold will cause the engine to be lean at cold start. In temperatures near or below freezing this could also cause the hard start condition.

For curiosity's sake, hopefully he will post the solution when he finds it.

 

[Ichigo1174]

I believe the plastic threaded piece should not be seated all the way.

High idle all the time? (aka running temp)

Look into how you adjust idle. My old OBD1 set up was more involved then most think. Unplugging the iacv is one of the steps I had to do in order to adjust idle and make it stay when you restart. Get a Helm's manual for your chassis

Edit: the part you cleaned is the IACV lol. Part number 9 under the throttle body section is you FITV but it idles better

In a earlier post i solved the "hard to start" issue and that was because my ECU wasn't reading my coolant sensor and was trowing off the mixture as Dual-500 suggested.

On the left side is a screw that takes a pentagon bit. You see the screw in the left hole and I think it moves the other screw type object in the right hole.
It is not seated all the way but by idling high i mean more like I'm used to it idling around 800 to 900 rpms and not 1100.

As far as fuel I'm a die hard BP fan and I use regular. I'm also going to replace the fuel filter ( i think it need to be changed and it can't hurt) but one of the bolt for on of the fuel lines on the filter is so damn hard to loosen that popped the whole filter out of the bracket (I thought I broke the bracket! ) LOL
Will change later... maybe tomorrow.

Also I just Checked my EF service manual, Hondapartscheap.com, and Hondapartsnow.com and none of them show a FITV for my 88 CRX Si.

My car runs almost back to normal since I've cleaned the IACV ( which is also reffered to as the Valve assembly Electronic Air Control). I just has this slight skip or slight sputter at times which I'll be getting another Distributor Cap and rotor button.
Would it be better to buy a Cap and Rotor button from one of the sites I mentioned or it wouldn't make a different if I just simply went up to advance?

 

[Dual-500]

Run some injector cleaner through it.

 

[Dual-500]

Okay, I took the FITV (located ont the back of the intake manifold) off and cleaned it. However, unlike all of the other pictures I've seen, I've noticed that mine looks as if it were screwed almost all the way in where barely anything can flow in one hole and out to the other.

But since I've cleaned it, it did solve the werid surging idle, still idles a little high, my question is, is it okay to adjust the screw while its running and where would I get a bit from that is a Pentagon? I had one but I don't know where I got it from.

The object shown in the RH hole of the valve is a neoprene rubber bellows that keeps the plunger clean. That thing is a simple electronic solenoid. A coil of wire with a hole in the center that the plunger occupies. When energized is pulls the plunger in and opens the airway. The ECU pulses it open to control the idle speed via bypass air flow.

I am not aware those have any adjustment to them - doesn't mean they don't. I would speculate if the screw does adjust, it will allow for minimum air flow adjustment. Not sure why there would be any adjustment to that valve. The butterfly on the throttle body is the low adjustment and is set with the harness' on the two electronic valves disconnected and the engine at idle fully warmed up.

 

[CAFROG]

The part is a IACV and not adjustable from my knowledge.

On hondapartscheap.com.....it's the same diagram picture but the FITV is not available as a #'d option for 88 CRX Si but is available for a 91 Civic Si

 

[Ichigo1174]

I think that is the wrong picture for the 88 CRX Si Throttle body picture because they have that same picture for the 91 civic Si. It shows that there is a port coming off of the Intake manifold for that FITV that is pointed to the firewall. However Mine is not like that. Plus if you switch from the Throttle Body(2) page to the Intake Manifold(2) page that little port disappears.

When looking at the Shop Manual the only thing I can think is that I have the two little Dashpots versus the FITV. If only I could post up a copy of the manual. It is 16 MB.
I'd have one of you look at it for a opinion. CAFROG if you pm'd me your email I think I can email it to you.