Turbo or Nitrous?
- Thread starter mozzandherb
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mozzandherb
Senior Member
No that would not scare me...lol. If I save the money that would be awesome.
[Freemantle]
Senior Member
Quoting my own post.
Speedracer228
......
ive been pondering this same question for a while... when i added it all up and accounted in for refills it would cost about the same for a "safe & mild" nitrous setup with the all the extra's like a bottle warmer, window switch etc than it would to do a HMT setup, even for my bseries.
I figured i could put together a turbo kit with proper fuel management and having it street tuned for about 1200, and the nitrous setup for a bout 900 not counting refills. For me that is a no brainer: No opening the bottle everytime i want to use it, no refilling the bottle once it is empty, no silly ricer nawwwwwz jokes
, and more power in a much more controlled environment (under boost vs spraying)
so turbo gets my vote
I figured i could put together a turbo kit with proper fuel management and having it street tuned for about 1200, and the nitrous setup for a bout 900 not counting refills. For me that is a no brainer: No opening the bottle everytime i want to use it, no refilling the bottle once it is empty, no silly ricer nawwwwwz jokes
, and more power in a much more controlled environment (under boost vs spraying)so turbo gets my vote
[Freemantle]
Senior Member
That's subjective to the installer. $1200 can afford you a good turbo, manifold, wastegate, intercooler, and fuel pump. He can make a safe setup with the VAFC hack (though not nearly as fast as a true tune would be). Supplying he did his own exhaust and charge piping, the rest of the parts could be easily had (crushed 1g BOV, DSM 450s, Oil line kit, vacuum hoses).
Don't assume that $1200 is a FMU powered shitbox Honda.
Speedracer228
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riiiiight.. just because im not buying a full race uber expensive kit or buying a useless 2500 drag kit that still needs some kind of fuel management doesnt mean i dont know what i need.
what im planning:
hotrex/ccfab mani: 170 shipped
big 16g turbo: im prolly pickin one up for 225 shipped using stock internal wg
downpipe: modified dsm dp using stock o2 housing 50 bucks being liberal
oil liles: 85 shipped stealthmodeperf
dsm bov: 30 bucks tops
450's: 50 bucks tops
jrc/or ebay intercooler: 155 shipped tops
charge pipes: making myself prolly only spend 50 bucks max
couplers: 35 stealthmodeperf
ecu chipped by xenocron with bre: 105 w/datalogging cable
street tune by xenocron: 150
boost gauge: 25 bucks on ebay
walboro 255 fp: 90 shipped
misc shit: 50 bucks
total is about $1270 TUNED being very liberal where i could easily wait and find some deals on quality used stuff
suck it
Speedracer228
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so all the dsm guys running 11's with the evo III 16g are gonna blow up because they are using a STOCK wastegate? i think id trust that a bit more than a shitty delta gate or ss auto knock off
and increasing the boost without internals has nothing to do with the turbo kit itself its about the tuning, and if its getting tuned with a wideband by a pro, dont you think xenocron has done this a few times before and knows what he's doing.... he hit 300 on his stock ls, so i think i could get my goal quite safely on my stock very healthy b16
sure you get what you pay for.... but you also get raped in the ass for paying full price for a shitty greddy kit or bs like that because you were too lazy to put something together yourself. Who said i was using any shoddy products? every part in my list has been used forever by pple over on Homemadeturbo.com, so why dont you go over there and tell all of them that you need to buy a brand name kit to make any power safely. Its not about how expensive your parts are, its in the fing tune
brand name cookie cutter unfinished bullshit of a kit running an FMU = :zipper_mouth:
doing research and putting together a kit yourself with that parts that you actually need =
ill smoke your pos greddy kit for a fraction of the price any day and laugh at you for wasting your money
and increasing the boost without internals has nothing to do with the turbo kit itself its about the tuning, and if its getting tuned with a wideband by a pro, dont you think xenocron has done this a few times before and knows what he's doing.... he hit 300 on his stock ls, so i think i could get my goal quite safely on my stock very healthy b16
sure you get what you pay for.... but you also get raped in the ass for paying full price for a shitty greddy kit or bs like that because you were too lazy to put something together yourself. Who said i was using any shoddy products? every part in my list has been used forever by pple over on Homemadeturbo.com, so why dont you go over there and tell all of them that you need to buy a brand name kit to make any power safely. Its not about how expensive your parts are, its in the fing tune
brand name cookie cutter unfinished bullshit of a kit running an FMU = :zipper_mouth:
doing research and putting together a kit yourself with that parts that you actually need =
ill smoke your pos greddy kit for a fraction of the price any day and laugh at you for wasting your money
lol, you dont know me at all. I would never use a turbo kit for any car. Im just saying how many times do you see people on HMT with blown engines.
From what i hear xenocron is a great tuner, so no disrespect there.
What i would like to point out is, why most honda engines blow under boost. yall might be suprised to know, but VTEC is BAD for Boost. DO yall know what overlap is? overlap will cause exhaust back pressure from the turbo to flow into the combustion chamber, thereby killing your performance. If i find the time, i will find the dynos proving that. VTEC is specifically for N/A engines. It is meant to create a high overlap environment which is inheirently bad for boost. Im sure that many of the people with turbod cars can tell you that high overlap + boost = potentially bad. It may not cause a problem right away, but as said good luck with that ammount of exhaust being pumped back into your cylinders.
One thing you didnt concider was cams. Also a new head gasket (havent seen your other posts to see if youve done it) would also be advisable. Im not trying to knock your build. I know it will work, but there are some potential problems by not doing it right the first time. Again check HMT to see how many motors have been rebuilt because of their way of doing things.
From what i hear xenocron is a great tuner, so no disrespect there.
What i would like to point out is, why most honda engines blow under boost. yall might be suprised to know, but VTEC is BAD for Boost. DO yall know what overlap is? overlap will cause exhaust back pressure from the turbo to flow into the combustion chamber, thereby killing your performance. If i find the time, i will find the dynos proving that. VTEC is specifically for N/A engines. It is meant to create a high overlap environment which is inheirently bad for boost. Im sure that many of the people with turbod cars can tell you that high overlap + boost = potentially bad. It may not cause a problem right away, but as said good luck with that ammount of exhaust being pumped back into your cylinders.
One thing you didnt concider was cams. Also a new head gasket (havent seen your other posts to see if youve done it) would also be advisable. Im not trying to knock your build. I know it will work, but there are some potential problems by not doing it right the first time. Again check HMT to see how many motors have been rebuilt because of their way of doing things.
Speedracer228
......
so all the sfwd dragsters running vtec are stupid lol 
and again, if you look at the blown engines why did they blow? the parts they used? 98% of the time no, ITS IN THE TUNE
cams, new headgasket, new arp head studs would all be nice if i was going for huge power on a stock block but for my goals i will be perfectly safe on my stock b16 with solid 200 compression across the board
so ill say it for the umteenth time ITS IN THE FING TUNE NOT THE PARTS USED and hence one huge part of my setup, wideband tuned by a well known tuner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
and ill stand by my statement, ill take a $1200 TUNED turbo kit over a $900 naaaaaaaaaaaawz setup that is unpredictable any day
and one more thing.... if what you say about "vtec is bad for boost" than stock for stock with both motors being boosted with the exact same setup and properly tuned, a b18a/b should make more power than a b18c..... now go find me that proof to back up your silly comments
and again, if you look at the blown engines why did they blow? the parts they used? 98% of the time no, ITS IN THE TUNE
cams, new headgasket, new arp head studs would all be nice if i was going for huge power on a stock block but for my goals i will be perfectly safe on my stock b16 with solid 200 compression across the board
so ill say it for the umteenth time ITS IN THE FING TUNE NOT THE PARTS USED and hence one huge part of my setup, wideband tuned by a well known tuner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
and ill stand by my statement, ill take a $1200 TUNED turbo kit over a $900 naaaaaaaaaaaawz setup that is unpredictable any day
and one more thing.... if what you say about "vtec is bad for boost" than stock for stock with both motors being boosted with the exact same setup and properly tuned, a b18a/b should make more power than a b18c..... now go find me that proof to back up your silly comments
Quoted post[/post]]
so all the sfwd dragsters running vtec are stupid lol
and again, if you look at the blown engines why did they blow? the parts they used? 98% of the time no, ITS IN THE TUNE
cams, new headgasket, new arp head studs would all be nice if i was going for huge power on a stock block but for my goals i will be perfectly safe on my stock b16 with solid 200 compression across the board
so ill say it for the umteenth time ITS IN THE FING TUNE NOT THE PARTS USED and hence one huge part of my setup, wideband tuned by a well known tuner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
and ill stand by my statement, ill take a $1200 TUNED turbo kit over a $900 naaaaaaaaaaaawz setup that is unpredictable any day
and one more thing.... if what you say about "vtec is bad for boost" than stock for stock with both motors being boosted with the exact same setup and properly tuned, a b18a/b should make more power than a b18c..... now go find me that proof to back up your silly comments
rikoshea quit while your ahead. ill build a d series turbo car for under 1500 that would shit all over your prelude.
money does not equal performance/reliability/ ect.
common sense and some skill will replace all of that.
nawwwzzz needs tuning just like a good turbo setup. tuned correctly, a high compression nitrous setup is very hard to beat on the street,
i myself and a turbo head. my setup for my 400whp b16a was "thrown" together using ssac and junkyard parts for around 500 dollars. but, since i know wtf im doing, itll run amazing. i see totla fucktards vaporizing high dollar shit all the time beacuse they dont know what they are doing.
im hmt 4 life in everything i do. dudes who blow shit up on hmt are no different than assholes who blow shit up on h-t. they either get greedy, or they flat out dont know what the fuck is going on. what about the group of seasoned hmt guys, myself included that make 300 plus whp on stock block setups all day with no problems and running heavy doses of vtak on itr/ctr cam combos?? what do you have to say to that there spanky??
i think its time for this....
its all in the tune baby.
Speedracer228
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thank you... its in the tune, not the parts
and im not nocking nitrous setups at all... just low budget to low budget. If you buy an off the shelf kit and throw in the75 shot and never upgrdade anything or get it tuned which 80% of people who buy nawz kits dont, its much safer (with better results) to run a low dollar tuned turbo setup
and im not nocking nitrous setups at all... just low budget to low budget. If you buy an off the shelf kit and throw in the75 shot and never upgrdade anything or get it tuned which 80% of people who buy nawz kits dont, its much safer (with better results) to run a low dollar tuned turbo setup
f22b1 coupe
Junior Member
I second drpenguin in that 1) nitrous is way cheaper than a turbo kit by far, unless you're gonna hit it every day all day long, and 2) it's pretty dang hard to do sleeves, I mean not impossible, but I've seen people spend weeks on it. The turbo would suck gas like penguin said, too, so my vote's for NOS
Show me a post that ive made that says just add parts without tuning. I have never said that in any post that i have made. What i was saying earlier was that a high overlap enviroment brings the potential for exhaust gas to be recombusted at temperatures around 800 degrees F. You think that knock from timing advance or hot spark plugs is bad...imagine what it would be when you have a back fire INSIDE YOUR COMBUSTION Chamber.
Believe me, you will be fine with stock honda cams, but you would be a lot better off in terms of safety (and low end power) with a low overlap high degree cam.
Oh, and i do not care to look up and see who posted about the eating my prelude alive thing, but ill put my $8-10k engine up against your HMT setup anytime.
And since im out at the shop today, ill confirm that its not all in the parts, and then i will show you what can happen to your engine when you still reuse parts on a turbo engine.
Believe me, you will be fine with stock honda cams, but you would be a lot better off in terms of safety (and low end power) with a low overlap high degree cam.
Oh, and i do not care to look up and see who posted about the eating my prelude alive thing, but ill put my $8-10k engine up against your HMT setup anytime.
And since im out at the shop today, ill confirm that its not all in the parts, and then i will show you what can happen to your engine when you still reuse parts on a turbo engine.
Tuning is everything, and we can all agree.
These pictures are of a broken ford big block h-beam and a bent to shit LS rod (turbo kit, no tune)
Both engines are in pretty crappy shape due to bad/no tuning.
Parts dont make all the difference. You are definitely right, but the right parts with the right tune will keep your engine in great condition for a long time.
These pictures are of a broken ford big block h-beam and a bent to shit LS rod (turbo kit, no tune)
Both engines are in pretty crappy shape due to bad/no tuning.
Parts dont make all the difference. You are definitely right, but the right parts with the right tune will keep your engine in great condition for a long time.
Speedracer228
......
again, what does it matter about used parts, if they arent faulty its fine... and show me where i said i was using faulty parts
USED DOES NOT EQUAL FAULTY
did you buy your lude brand new? if not it will break, ill show you some guy who bought a used prelude, it blew up
i guess you dont know the story behind my prelude. bought it used with an H23, blew a rod 3 days later. Straight through the block.
What i was saying is an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The guy we sold that BBF to didnt heed our warning. It was not tuned at all. It was put together set at TDC, and thats it. He decided to put nitrous on it and rev it up to close to 9k rpms. the bearings were all shot, and the guy had the thing less than a week. Thats why the H-Beams broke. The LS was a remaned engine from top to bottom. 16lbs of boost on stock rods and pistons bent his rod.
This is my last post in this topic.
*puts away measuring tape*
What i was saying is an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The guy we sold that BBF to didnt heed our warning. It was not tuned at all. It was put together set at TDC, and thats it. He decided to put nitrous on it and rev it up to close to 9k rpms. the bearings were all shot, and the guy had the thing less than a week. Thats why the H-Beams broke. The LS was a remaned engine from top to bottom. 16lbs of boost on stock rods and pistons bent his rod.
This is my last post in this topic.
*puts away measuring tape*