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turbo vs all motor ls - automatic daily driver

Discussion in 'Integra' started by spoonhuntr, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. spoonhuntr

    spoonhuntr New Member

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    Please don't flame without reading this whole post please.
    I have been on these forums for a while, but i tend to read alot more then i post. I own a 96 Integra LS coupe (automatic). My wife drives this car daily, and that is important because she does not want a manual swap in it (her car her choice).

    My question is this: staying with the automatic trans (which runs amazing) what is the better way to gain horsepower for daily driving in a mountain terrain setting (big hills, lots of turning and POTHOLES). I'm looking for only breaking 200ish hp for daily driving. How does turbo vs all motor compare at a low hp setting? All i'm finding is "I wanna make 600hp how do i do this" posts.

    Current setup:
    b18b non vtec
    stock engine
    AEM fuel rail
    550cc injectors
    AEM fuel press reg
    CAI
    ceramic headers 4-2-1
    stainless 2.5" catback
    no tuning done yet

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. 95b16coupe

    95b16coupe New Member

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    why the 550 injectors on a stock engine? they are too big and your engine doesnt' require the extra fuel. basically it's wasted money. also, your exhaust is too big. it should be smaller. you are probably losing a little bottom end because of it.

    if you are looking for power and general driving capability, i would slap on a supercharger and call it good. a turbo will require a lot more work and your wife might not like the powerband it creates.

    going n/a to 200 hp will require you to crack open the head and block. you'll get into pretty spendy territory. for a woman to drive an integra, expect it to be low power. options are limited without spending a lot of money or sacrificing reliability.
     
  3. FLounder

    FLounder power hungry VIP

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    as opposed to a turbo, i would look into a jackson racing supercharger setup. or you could get there with just the motor as already mentioned. swapping to a vtec head and bumping up compression a bit, bolt ons and some dyno tuning would really wake it up.
     
  4. spoonhuntr

    spoonhuntr New Member

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    What kind of gains would i see if i rebuilt the head with maybe CTR pistons for an all motor build? I love the supercharger idea, but where i live i havent seen any for less then $1000 for a non vtec b18. The injectors were given to me from a friend with the intent on eventually needing them after further upgrades. I'm open to any suggestions though. Honestly the car was originally getting a ls/vtec swap with a GSR trans. I went to college this year and ended up selling the parts for needed cash. Now i have other plans and my wife loves the integra.
     
  5. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Wha? Supercharger? Yeah... hard to find, and not really that reliable for the Jacksons on that block. I've seen too many issues with them.

    You might want to look into a cheap DIY turbo kit. Use a really small turbo, build your own log manifold ( jgsturbo.com is a good place to look) and dig up a small turbo on the scale of a Mitsubishi TD05H-14b with the side mount intercooler that came stock on the Eclipses. Run the piping yourself, grab an AEM FIC (about $400 new) to tune since you're OBD2, head to the dyno and call it done.

    This way you can avoid opening up the block, make 200whp easily with lots of torque down low because of the small turbo, and keep costs down if you do the fabrication yourself. You already have the injectors to support at least 200whp, so that's a few hundred bucks saved right there.

    As far as the exhaust, keep it. You're not going to lose much on the bottom end at all with a 2.5" catback on that engine. The transmission will probably hold up just fine if you keep the boost low (stock setting on the turbo I mentioned is 8psi I think) and don't drag launch it. If you're handy around tools and your engine is healthy, you could be done for less than the cost of a head swap.
     
  6. spoonhuntr

    spoonhuntr New Member

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    That sounds really good actually. And its a cheap setup with little to no difficulty doing. Thanks alot!
     
  7. 95b16coupe

    95b16coupe New Member

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    bring it back a notch. it's not going to be "cheap" and "not difficult". if it's your wifes dd, i would seriously reconsider doing a turbo build. all in all, an intake, header, and maybe a tune would be best. if you don't have much experience building turbo kits, you could end up blowing your motor.
     
  8. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

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  9. spoonhuntr

    spoonhuntr New Member

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    If you read the top part, you would also see that i have already done more then the basic on bolt ons. I do understand though the danger of tossing cheap kit and calling it a day. I have no intention of doing anything uneducated without a knowledged installer helping me. The question is, which way would be better for what i'm looking for. I'm not building a monster, just a low hp daily driver.
    I fear the major factor is the slow automatic trans. That being said what CAN i do to increase the hp without it being a danger to the engine.

    Current setup:
    b18b non vtec
    stock engine
    AEM fuel rail
    550cc injectors
    AEM fuel press reg
    CAI
    ceramic headers 4-2-1
    stainless 2.5" catback
    no tuning done yet

    Thanks.
     
  10. spoonhuntr

    spoonhuntr New Member

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    The point of the entire post is this:
    We love our integra, and she will not give on the automatic trans. So, what can be done beyond what i've installed that would increase the hp to an area where it no longer feels sluggish. The initial acceleration is slow, but at higher speeds is rather quick.
     
  11. 95b16coupe

    95b16coupe New Member

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    nothing really. each mod you install without a proper tune will compromise the integrity of the engine.


    before we can help, how much money do you have to invest in this adventure? flat out, what is the dollar amount you will be able to spend?
     
  12. newb

    newb phresh VIP

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    Why do you want 200HP for your wifes DD?

    Automatics in Hondas arent popular with anyone tryin to make power for a reason. Id say reevaluate your HP goal and go from there.

    If you cant live without 200HP, put togather a turbo kit rated for that much power, or just a little bit more. If you spend good money on nice components thatll net you that much power, then youll get your goal and the parts will last forever. Dont spend money on cheap knock offs of fancy, big power parts.
     
  13. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Again, all depends on level of skill and how comfortable he is tuning an engine.
     
  14. spoonhuntr

    spoonhuntr New Member

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    200hp is just a vague number. I've often driven my friends type r and hes a bit over 200hp and its not crazy fast or anything. I'm just looking to increase the hp to a lvl where i feel it can get out of its own way. Once again, this isn't your typical "I wanna race this at the track/street" post. This is a daily driven car. I drive it to work off and on and my wife drives it a few times a week. All i'm asking is if anyone has done a smaller build that would work for this automatic. Everyones saying something different lol. I appreciate the help though really, but it's not as complicated as it sounds. I've built and driven a 300hp awd dsm for the last 2 years, and now would like to upgrade my integra to a higher hp level. Nothing fancy, its not going to get trashed on just daily driven. No speeding, no burnouts. I've been around this scene for the last decade so its nothing new to me.
    My goal is not a $$ limitation, i am willing to save for the right parts, and then get a proper tune afterwards. I wish i could afford a type r engine, but alas they are not going down in price anytime soon lol.

    If my goal IS 200hp would a small turbo kit be "easier" to hit that mark then cracking the engine open?
     
  15. spoonhuntr

    spoonhuntr New Member

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    If your asking a dollar amount. I can afford $200ish a month maybe more. Assuming i cant get the parts through buisness contacts, i can save for what i need.
     
  16. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    If you built a 300hp AWD DSM, then you can probably tackle this.

    To me going with a small turbo would definitely be easier to hit 200whp than going inside the block. The engine will behave a little differently since you'll be relying on turbo spool (shouldn't be too bad on a small turbo), but you'll have experienced that with the DSM. To get 200whp out of a B18 non-VTEC block by building the internals, you pretty much need to get high compression pistons, convert to a VTEC head, add big cams, strengthen block so you can spin to 8000, then tune tune tune.

    With the tiny turbo, you could do it all without going inside the block at all.

    I'm usually a supporter of all motor builds over all else, but in this case I really think that a turbo would be much easier to use to hit your goal.
     
  17. spoonhuntr

    spoonhuntr New Member

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    Yeah the dsm had a small turbo when i bought it, and the side mount intercooler formentioned. I'd rather not swap the head if i can gain close to my goal without it. I kinda think a turbo setup would be fun for a change anyways. Question though. Can the stock fuel pump from an auto LS handle a small turbo?
     
  18. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    I wouldn't DIY turbo anything your wife drives through the mountains daily. Too unreliable IMO. You lose a boost pipe coupler, and shes stranded....

    vtec Head swap along with p30/pr3 pistons gets my vote. will give you high 10's compression and you'll pick up a good 40 hp. And it will run like stock.
     
  19. 95b16coupe

    95b16coupe New Member

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    but it's obvious that he doesn't. he needs to leave the car stock.
    sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you don't have enough free cash flow to build it right. nor do you have enough to repair it if something goes wrong. you need to come to terms with the fact that you have an integra. it's a mid level econo-car, not a torque-y racer. you would be better off with something like a golf gti with a turbo if you want stock tq.
    yep, another reason to leave it stock
     
  20. spoonhuntr

    spoonhuntr New Member

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    Advice is welcome sir, but don't shit on me when you know nothing about me. I'm not implying that i do or do not have the skill to build an engine, as i've been building dsm's for the last 10 years. Yes 10 years as i'm 28 and i bought my first dsm when i was 18 years old. I posted this to get advice not criticism. I do not know what it takes to gain the hp i want, as i do not know the non vtec b18 very well. I'm associated with over three dozen mechanics from dealers and twice that in auto parts companies, due to my work, many of which have helped me in the past. I learn from others as i go. I thank you for your opinion, but don't assume and demean me because i'm asking advice.
    As to the budget, it really doesn't matter how much i can afford right now, because as i stated i'm intending on doing this right and gathering parts before i attempt anything. Utill i act like a child or show disrespect i dont expect to get any in return. :)
    Thanks.
     
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