Turbo vs Supercharging

[joe42069]

Hello. I have a 94 civic with a JDM GSR swap. What would be the better choice Turbo charging or Supercharging? The car will be drivin not every day but 3-4 days a week. I running 93 octane in it. I was looking at the vortech supercharger system. It does have stock internals for now, but down the road I will do a fully built motor. Which one is easier to mantain? Which would give me more power and torque?

Joe

 

[drpenguin]

super chargers will net you more touqe where a turbo will be more power. turbo is cheaper and easier in my book. and no one really fears a super charged gsr.

 

[formby]

maintaining is up to you.....if you beat both setups they will both die....


turbo for the most free HP and torque..

.i would get a fullrace kit and some forged rods and pistons and call it a day....

 

[reikoshea]

I dunno. If i could fit a supercharger on my lude, thats what i would do. But i drive mine every day, and the only turbo i would put on my car would be about a 6-10 grand kit.

Its either have smooth torque transition or have insanely high horsepower. I like AutoX more than drag (but there is not much else to do in TX) so i would definitely go supercharger on mine.

If you plan on taking your car to the strip (or street races) turbo is the way to go.

 

[Speedracer228]

superchargers on honda's are stupid, especially the centrifical ones like vortech.. its like having a big crappy turbo that runs on a belt and you cant turn up the boost

build your own turbo kit-best bang for the buck. or if your a baller go with full-race^

 

[phunky.buddha]

Quoted post[/post]]
Its either have smooth torque transition or have insanely high horsepower. I like AutoX more than drag (but there is not much else to do in TX) so i would definitely go supercharger on mine.

There's a LOT more to do in Texas than drag... and you live in the best area for Texas motorsports too- you have Motorsports Ranch right next door to you, and TX World Speedway isn't that far either.

 

[reikoshea]

youre gonna have to PM me addresses. I live down the street from TMS, and that is the only place i know that has a road course.

 

[phunky.buddha]

Look them up? I don't know the addresses. They're all pretty well known places. Just google up Motorsports Ranch. Check thedriversedge.net too. They do a LOT of TX area road course events.

 

[reikoshea]

SHWEET...i am forced to just play with my friends in rowlette...not too many cops out there.

 

[Cashizslick]

Quoted post[/post]]
superchargers on honda's are stupid, especially the centrifical ones like vortech.. its like having a big crappy turbo that runs on a belt and you cant turn up the boost

build your own turbo kit-best bang for the buck. or if your a baller go with full-race^

Reasons why superchargers on hondas are stupid:



1.) Honda's dont make a lot of torque. They rely on variable valve timing and high rmp's to make power. Although it may seem like adding gobbs of torque to your honda would be best, think again -> roots type superchargers run off of your crank pully . . . robbing your car of HP.

-THe parisitic loss from an S/C is not a big deal if your motor is only spinning at 2k or 4k rpms (Detroit Muscle FTW !!11!1!!!y0n3!!!111!) , but our honda's rev till 8.2k . . . thats two times the HP loss s/c'd muscle cars experience.

2.) Honda's are FWD. THe added torque from the s/c will just turn into wheel spin/wheel hop when you try and accelerate off the line.

- on a FWD car the lag from the turbocharger is your friend as you will be able to catch traction off the line . . . then when you have traction, your turbo has spooled up and you will get to accelerate like an animal without wheelspin.

. . . . . so why not get a centerfugal s/c instead? This brings me to point #3

3.) Ever use a "spork" (fork & spoon combo)? A spork is a lousy fork and a lousy spoon at the same time.

A centerfugal s/c is an s/c that tries to imitate a turbo's abilty to progressivly increase HP. Centerfugal s/c's flow air in relation to the vehicle's RPM's . . . while this may seem like a good idea at first, this type of S/C has one MAJOR shortcoming.

It cant stay "spooled" like a turbo can.

Ok lets say we have a centerfugal s/c that will flow a maximum of 10psi @ 8k rpms. It will progressively

build up to flowing 10psi something like this: RPM: 5k - 6k - 7k - 8k
PSI: 7psi - 8psi - 9psi - 10psi

After you shift gears, your RPM's decrease from 8k to 6k, so your s/c goes back to only flowing 8psi . . . then 9psi, etc.

Now lets say we have a comparable turbocharger set to flow a maximum of 10psi. Turbos have the abilty to stay spooled, meaning that after you shift gears, your turbo will not revert to flowing less air like our Centerfugal S/C will. Once the turbo is spooled up, it will flow that 10psi all day long even if you shift gears (some air will escape provided you have a BOV, but it wont stop the turbo from spooling as your motor is still emitting exhuast gasses).

Basically, the turbo will flow 10psi from 6k rpm's untill 8k rpm's when it spools up to maximum boost. When you shift and your RPM's drop to 6k, your turbo will still be flowing 10psi, not 8psi like the s/c would be.

Depending on your turbocharger/engine combonation, you can tune your setup to hit its maximum airflow at whichever RPM is best for the type of driving you do . . . not like a centerfugal s/c that ONLY hits max airflow at redline.

4.) The fastest hondas are TURBO hondas.


my 2cnts

 

[jamesA]

Quoted post[/post]]
superchargers on honda's are stupid, especially the centrifical ones like vortech.. its like having a big crappy turbo that runs on a belt and you cant turn up the boost

build your own turbo kit-best bang for the buck. or if your a baller go with full-race^

uh... why? Superchargers are for people who don't have the time, inclination or desire to put together a DIY turbo kit. Kits are overpriced, and the fact that a twin screw will give instant boost anywhere in the RPM band is beneficial to me.

I'm getting an SC kit because I don't want massive power. I want decent power, no lag and no having to shop for the correctly sized turbo I'd need to achieve that.

A turbo will net you more power, but an SC will be more smooth through the rpm band.

Oh, and it's Centrifugal.

2.) Honda's are FWD. THe added torque from the s/c will just turn into wheel spin/wheel hop when you try and accelerate off the line.

What you won't spin in a turbocharged Honda? Turbo's net you more power and torque all around. You have more of a chance to light them up just as much as you don't with an SC.

 

[posol]

there is less wheel-spin from a launch in a turbo car due to it not making power until 3-4k...unless you have some kind of anit-lag launch set up of course...

turbo gets my vote. there's an article on this in the turbo articles forum have a read.

 

[Speedracer228]

i stand by my statement, if you want a flat power/torque curve on a honda go all motor

all superchargers for honda's are very unefficient and damn expensive compared to a turbo counterpart

and to say that someone "doesnt have the time" to research enough to put together their own kit instead of buying a prefabbed one (that is def overpriced) is just lazyness. Its not rocket science. And if you dont care enough to do so, then you deserve a supercharged honda that sucks. Waste of money period

 

[jamesA]

Quoted post[/post]]
i stand by my statement, if you want a flat power/torque curve on a honda go all motor

all superchargers for honda's are very unefficient and damn expensive compared to a turbo counterpart

and to say that someone "doesnt have the time" to research enough to put together their own kit instead of buying a prefabbed one (that is def overpriced) is just lazyness. Its not rocket science. And if you dont care enough to do so, then you deserve a supercharged honda that sucks. Waste of money period

Why is it a waste of money? The time it takes to figure out how to read compressor maps, figure out exactly what kind of trim of the turbo which would work best for your application, figure out all the pieces and parts you'd need, sure you could save a grand... but a JRSC at 6 psi for 2200 bucks is a waste of money?

I'm not trying to say that an SC is the better application, but the fact it's merely your opinion that supercharging a honda "sucks" is just that, an opinion. Inefficient? Sure. A turbo flowing the same CFMs as an SC kit WILL make more power when tuned properly. But who cares? Not everyone is building a badass drag Civic that'll run on slicks.

The only two people I'd take any advice from on this board about supercharging is the only two people who've actually HAD a supercharger on their cars. That'd be Steve and Prowler. I do recall Prowler recommending it, and Steve reminiscing about how he missed the sound of the supercharger, the more broad power band, and the feel of the car on low boost.

Both of them love(d) their kits, and both of them recommend it for someone who has a daily driven Civic.

I personally cannot wait to get it. I'm not expecting much. A mere 200 whp with i/h/e, gsr cams and 6 psi tuned on a chipped P28 are pretty much going to be my only engine modifications. Why is an SC a waste of cash?

Are you calling me lazy now? You're goddamn right I'm lazy, but I guess my laziness still allowed me to research Turbo kits for the past 2 years. What I've found is there are way too many choices out there, and without having extensive knowledge and everyone here giving biased personal opinions it makes it that much more hard to make a decision.

My point, obviously is if in the end whatever his decision is, he should look back and think he made the right choice based on the facts, instead of opinions.

 

[reikoshea]

only thing im gonna say is, i would never put any product on my car without doing extensive research on it. I have put the time and research into seeing what is the best turbo for my honda. after i was done, i had to review my goals and see what would be good for me in the end. I am going to go All motor daily driven, and then have a seperate fuel map for the track. At that point im going to run a DPI N2O system for the track and races. In the end its gonna save me about 6k.

 

[driverunknown]

turbo ftw!!!!

drag racing still sucks!!!

Buying a turbo kit is for newbs. Piecing together a turbo kit is where its at. You can buy it piece by piece and it will be just like saving up, except you never give a huge chunk of money away....like say 2200

And that is a good deal for a sc btw. I hope 2000si doesn't get leaks on that sealed system. It's supposed to last a long time, but you never know.

 

[jamesA]

Quoted post[/post]]
turbo ftw!!!!

drag racing still sucks!!!

Buying a turbo kit is for newbs. Piecing together a turbo kit is where its at. You can buy it piece by piece and it will be just like saving up, except you never give a huge chunk of money away....like say 2200

And that is a good deal for a sc btw. I hope 2000si doesn't get leaks on that sealed system. It's supposed to last a long time, but you never know.

I guess a few leaks, that may or may not happen, is a lot better than spiking boost when the wastegate malfunctions blowing your engine and the turbo apart.

I'll take my chances on replacing a 2200 dollar SC with a warranty over a 5000 dollar engine that wouldn't be covered by warranty.

Edit: drag racing does suck.

 

[phunky.buddha]

Quoted post[/post]]
Buying a turbo kit is for newbs. Piecing together a turbo kit is where its at. You can buy it piece by piece and it will be just like saving up, except you never give a huge chunk of money away....like say 2200

I'll probably still be buying a turbo kit in a year or two myself... but the kits I'm looking at are way different than the bargain turbo kits that you see for Civics. A $2000 Greddy kit can't hold a candle to a no compromise $8000 kit with real thought behind it.

 

[Speedracer228]

s/c still suck... spend that 2200 on an all oem lsvtec build that will get you that same 200hp and be much more reliable, and i bet you still save money

and also, it is not fucking rocket science to figure out what turbo to use for your goals. You want to road race your civic? look into fast spooling ball bearing turbos such as the disco potato and what not, then if you decide you ever need to go a little faster, just turn the knob on the boost controller and get it retuned....

now what happens when the novelty of the sc on your civic wears off and your wanting more.... spend more money to buy pulleys that will only give you like 2 more psi? gotta love the ability to upgrade


and the facts show, superchargers arent for honda's. They are for mustangs, camaro's and other v8 applications.

 

[Cashizslick]

Quoted post[/post]]
s/c still suck... spend that 2200 on an all oem lsvtec build that will get you that same 200hp and be much more reliable, and i bet you still save money

That 2200 would be better spent on a wet nitrous kit. Then u can use the other 1700k you just saved to buy a used set of streetable camshafts and boost your fuel system.