Type R Camshafts (Finally found some!!)

[CAFROG]

Renting a Spring Compressor that takes the springs off while the head is still attached has been a bull shit treasure hunt so I broke down and bought this for $74 Delivered. Its specially designed for B and H series VTEC motors

Euro Export, Inc.

 

[Magana559]

Thats a damn good tool. My buddy made one at home with a lil bit of welding and a caliper compresser.

 

[CAFROG]

This is what I do, you will need a friend.

set cams at TDC and crank pulley. Throw on timing belt and tighten tensioner, Then have a your friend use a breaker bar with a 19mm socket and hold the crank in place so you dont make the engine turn over while you torque down the cam bolts.

I read that this is a bad idea b/c you are putting stress on your timing belt and can eff up the teeth. I am just going to use a folded towel on a bench vise while my dad holds the dead weight of the camshaft. I'll just install the cam seals on them then. Still waiting on the cam bolts and keys. That way, my B16 cams/gears will still be together if smog is a bitch in 2yrs.

Not sure when I'll get my valve compressor tool (shipped today) or my missing outer exhaust springs....probably get them later this week (at the eariliest) I also ordered a charcoal metallic powder coated valve cover with the cam gear access cut out. It wont show up for at least a week if not 2 weeks (coming from the east coast)

So doing this while I'm off work for spring break isn't going to work....eff. This is my first venture into valve train (helped with a cam swap once but this is harder). I need to jack the motor up on driver's side to get rocker shafts out and rubber band the rocker arms together before removal....that's my scariest task of the swap (IMO)

 

[Magana559]

I read that this is a bad idea b/c you are putting stress on your timing belt and can eff up the teeth. I am just going to use a folded towel on a bench vise while my dad holds the dead weight of the camshaft. I'll just install the cam seals on them then. Still waiting on the cam bolts and keys. That way, my B16 cams/gears will still be together if smog is a bitch in 2yrs.

Not sure when I'll get my valve compressor tool (shipped today) or my missing outer exhaust springs....probably get them later this week (at the eariliest) I also ordered a charcoal metallic powder coated valve cover with the cam gear access cut out. It wont show up for at least a week if not 2 weeks (coming from the east coast)

So doing this while I'm off work for spring break isn't going to work....eff. This is my first venture into valve train (helped with a cam swap once but this is harder). I need to jack the motor up on driver's side to get rocker shafts out and rubber band the rocker arms together before removal....that's my scariest task of the swap (IMO)

you put way more stress on the belt when you launch, when you downshift with out rev-matching, or when shifting at WOT. Trust me, that belt goes through a hell of a lot of abuse.

 

[CAFROG]

That makes sense.....lol.....for sure. But I got the bench vise and a towel so I'd rather have the camshafts ret-2-go when I finally get all the other crap installed and its just a matter of placing them in and getting the timing marks good-2-go. My motor better purr like a kitten after almost $200 for LMA's lol. I'll try to take a video lol

 

[GlassHeadlights]

you put way more stress on the belt when you launch, when you downshift with out rev-matching, or when shifting at WOT. Trust me, that belt goes through a hell of a lot of abuse.

Indeed, thats the way I've always done it. I just get my sister to hold the breaker bar.

 

[CAFROG]

Got it done! Took me about 6-8 hours (depending if you count breaks b/c my back hates me being bent over the motor for too long lol). Rocker shafts came out much easier then I thought. That valve compressor tool worked awesome! I Highly recommended it for B and H series VTEC heads!! Made a air compressor hose to fit in the spark plug holes and it was good to go. Had to use a tap and hammer on some of the old retainers when compressing the valve (b/c the valve was opening with the compression of the spring) but other then that and those tiny ass keepers...it went smooth (although my back begs to differ). I would love to have some gurney to lay on my belly while I worked on the motor to keep my back from needing to be bent over lol. Or a friggin lift (in my dream garage thats as big as the house lmao)

I HATE doing valve lash on these B series VTEC heads!!! D16Z6 and B18B is much easier for me. My B16 head cast sits so high in comparison to the stupid rocker adjustments. The place to put the feeler gauge in is way low inside the head. Had to make a tool out of an open ended wrench and a deep socket welded together (thanks to my dad's ingenious idea and welding) It worked great and the screw driver went right through the deep socket's hole. But the part that I hate about the valve lash is the feelers (yes the angled ones) don't rest perpendicular to the valve stem so its at some cracked off angle (like bound up a little) that gave me a false reading. The valves are fine but I thought it would be quieter. I tried to gap them at 0.152mm intake and 0.174mm exhaust. Its not too loud (same as my B16A set up sounded) but I was hoping for a purr lol. I will go through them again when I put my new valve cover on (hopefully it will be here mid next week)

Thanks to everyone (especially Magana) for the advise and helping me figure out the CTR camshafts are a little different the 00/01 ITR's. I will throw up a picture of the new valve cover when I put it in. Will be getting a chipped ECU for the set up in a week or two and will be getting it tuned a week or two later (or more depending on my schedule). I'm gonna try to get a video camera to film the dyno and then you guys will know how great or how bad an idea this was!

 

[Magana559]

Great job man! Im glad to see you got it done.

When its your first time you always over think shit, But thats great! Keeps you from doing a careless job.

When are you gonna dyno it? If you come to Fresno and have Tom tune it you can borrow my point n shoot. It has video mode on it.

 

[CAFROG]

I'm not sure about my chipped ECU I'm getting. It will have a base map for a set up he's done before with Type R cams. He seems pretty cool and is very informed. Guy told me that any Dyno Honda guy would know how to tune it but I'm not sure b/c it will NOT be socketed.....so I don't know how they tune the A/F or what ever else might be entailed (Dynos I've seen have been simple ones with changes only in Distributor and Adj Gears timing so this is foreign territory for me). I just want to max what I have with the ECU and gears through a tuner who has some ideas to try (Maybe even Honda Black Magic Practices lol)

 

[B16]

I got a Honda tuner for you in San Jose. Tuned my B16 w/CTR cams to 174whp. Get Hondata.

 

[CAFROG]

I got a Honda tuner for you in San Jose. Tuned my B16 w/CTR cams to 174whp. Get Hondata.

Hondata is pretty dang expensive.....

I thought you had a Type R head too?

 

[Magana559]

Dont get A chip. Chips are garbage, I only hit 115whp on a Phearable chip. I left with 150whp after the tune. a 35whp difference! Every engine is not the same. If you want the most out of your engine(life and performance) you need to tune it. $200 more (plus gas) for insurance is not bad at all if you ask me.

Get a socketed ECU. If the ECU isnt socketed then you cant put a new chip in it when its tuned. on crome.

you would have to de-solder and solder to put in a new chip, with a socket you can pull the chip and press in the new one. Crome is cheap and perfect for all motor setups, Hondata is great but expensive.

As for tuning A:F and ignition maps, its all done with another ECU that has a chip burner mounted on it so you can burn one chip when your done tuning.(at least thats how Tom did it.)

 

[B16]

Hondata is pretty dang expensive.....

I thought you had a Type R head too?

Yes; type R head. But you always want a custom tune (Hondata or Chrome).

 

[CAFROG]

So this guy has 'preset' chips that would not be tunable without a socket...which is what I thought but he made it sound tunable.

Magana, it sounded like Tom can burn a chip off a ECU he already has (in house) that is socketed and just copy it to chip to place in and ECU I provide?

I need to investigate this more. Sounds like I need a virgin P28....or a P28 that is socketed and is compatible with Crome. The guy with the chipped ECU is cheap ($100) b/c he is using a P06 that he custom converts with binary code tweaks and re-writes...along with other things I don't have a good grasp of lol. Gonna talk to him more Monday afternoon (if my work day isn't too hectic)

 

[CAFROG]

I just looked it up and I am over 200 miles from Fresno.....damn! San Jose is a little closer but damn! lol

 

[Magana559]

So this guy has 'preset' chips that would not be tunable without a socket...which is what I thought but he made it sound tunable.

Magana, it sounded like Tom can burn a chip off a ECU he already has (in house) that is socketed and just copy it to chip to place in and ECU I provide?

I need to investigate this more. Sounds like I need a virgin P28....or a P28 that is socketed and is compatible with Crome. The guy with the chipped ECU is cheap ($100) b/c he is using a P06 that he custom converts with binary code tweaks and re-writes...along with other things I don't have a good grasp of lol. Gonna talk to him more Monday afternoon (if my work day isn't too hectic)

Once you burn a chip, its burned and cannot be tuned unless you reburn it with another map.

Yes, Tom has a Inhouse Ecu that he hooks up to your car and uses that to tune the map for your Engine. Once the tuning is done He burns the map on a chip and puts it in your socketed ECU.

You DO NOT NEED ANOTHER ECU. Dont let anybody tell you that you need another ecu.

you need to get yours socketed(your P30). It shouldnt cost more than $40-100(at most) to get that done. you already have a Vtec ecu so all you need to do is socket it. Its super simple. you can DIY if you know how to solder.

 

[eg6sir]

that virgin p30 he has is like gold here in CA... why on earth would he chip it?

 

[Magana559]

I always see em the same price as P28's 80-100$

I dont see why he should not socket it. Saves him money.

Unless Some one will buy it for $250 or something crazy like that. That way he can buy a P28 socket it and have $100 in his pocket.

 

[eg6sir]

a virgin usdm p30 can pull $350 from the right person

 

[Magana559]

Wow thats retarded. Why would anybody pay that much? OBD1 cars arent hooked up to a computer when smoged. They just have to pass the visual and the sniffer.