UFC 81 this saturday...Mir/Lesnar

[Capt. Orygun]

umm, no

Brock lost beacause he was inexperienced and got caught in a submission. That is hardly uncommon in the UFC. With more training learning to control himself and not get impatient he could still have a bright future. He dominated Mir up until he made a rookie mistake.

 

[get_nick]

Brock lost beacause he was inexperienced and got caught in a submission. That is hardly uncommon in the UFC. With more training learning to control himself and not get impatient he could still have a bright future. He dominated Mir up until he made a rookie mistake.

mir grabbed at his leg 3 or 4 times before he got ahold of it. lesnar should have dropped into a full guard and tried to ground and pound. he was greedy going for a big knockout blow. he'll learn. it was only his second mma fight ever and it was on a ppv on ufc. thats a lot of pressure.

 

[E_SolSi]

Uh... he had Mir knocked out on his feet. Essentially this fight was about Mir getting lucky, after Lesnar who dominated the fight, left a huge opening.

To not give someone credit, after he came into his first fight and dominated the initial portion of the fight with arguably the best heavyweight there currently is in the UFC, is pretty silly.

are you on drugs???
what the fuck are you talking about??? knocked out?!?! the only time Mir looked anything remotely close to knocked out was after he took 3 shots to the back of the head... knocked down?? sure I'll give you that
dominated??? sure I'll even give you that... he did throw a shit load of punches... but the whole time Mir was on the ground the second time he was working on getting Lesnar into a submission (while taking a shit ton of punches)... and after a few attempts, he got it... thats the difference between a brawler throwing a fuck ton of punches, and a technical fighter looking for opportunities, weaknesses, and openings, and exploiting them...
speaking of "technique" Lesnar is not ready for any serious action in the UFC... his conditioning sucks... sure hes strong and can throw fast punches... but if you watch the video again (without the Jergens bottle) you can see at 4:00 on the clock (one minute into the fight) he is already getting winded and starting to slow down considerably... at 3:57 he is sitting straight up catching his breath (and probly wondering why Mir isnt knocked out yet)... at 3:43 he is wobbly when he stands up (he hasn't even taken any hits...this is all from wearing himself out)... at 3:41 Mir starts to go for Lesnar's ankle... 4 fucking seconds later at 3:37 (this was not some blindingly fast move that was impossible to see coming... this was well telegraphed) Mir has the ankle and Lesnar is taken off balance and is falling to the ground... at 3:35 Mir has the ankle locked up and is applying the leg bar... at 3:33 Lesnar is tapping... at 3:30 the ref stops the fight...

Lesnar got winded quick (shitty technique, poor conditioning, and lack of training)
the only "technique" he has shown so far is throwing a shit load of punches (brawler)
he got caught in a pretty easy to avoid leg bar (weak defense against submissions)

so far your boyfriend Lesnar sounds a lot like Tank Abbott back in the day...


maybe with more training, conditioning, and experience he might someday be something... but unless he changes his game plan, he will be little more than a flash in the pan... and all that will be left behind will be a few marked losses on his MMA record, and some dried man-juice stains on the poster of him you have on your wall

 

[E_SolSi]

He *is* in a good training camp and has trained with some of the best in the sport.

and it shows

 

[totalburnout]

Blanco, his stand up would suck?

Did you watch the fight?

It was on its feet for all of about 30 seconds, because both times they were on their feet, Lesnar was excellent.

1) A fast takedown, right as Mir gave the perfect opening by throwing a kick. Thats pretty text book right there. ...really sounds like his stand up needs improvement there...

2) He picked and chose his punch, and dropped Mir. ...your point proven again... *rolls eyes*


And E, the only time he was remotely close to being out? Are you fucking for real, the first time he was taken down, I thought the fight was stopped when Mir was only "intelligently fighting" by putting his gloves in front of his face as Lesnar just punched through them.

As nick pointed out, I think other refs would have stopped the fight.

When was Mir out? Well when all he did was have his hands up, he was in la-la land. When he got hit in the back of the head, he was in la-la land. When he got punched while they were on his feet and he got dropped, he was in la-la land.

You can talk about technique all you want, Lesnar clearly made a rookie mistake when he was overzealous and went for the knockout, instead of sticking to his game plan and going back to his feet where he dominated. I'll give you that 100%. What I won't give you is that this guy deserves no respect when he basically put on a fight that some other refs would have stopped earlier and a fight where he clearly dominated until the very end.

Also, you two are fucking joke shows for making any comments whatsoever about his conditioning. "He got winded" is your argument. Its called punching yourself out. If you're throwing punches as hard as you can, constantly, I don't care how well trained you are, you will be winded. So your argument is a damn joke.

I know that you both haven't seen what the inside of a gym looks like in ages, so I'll forgive you when you even attempt to have an opinion on the conditioning of a world class athlete...

ahahahaha. I can't believe any of you would even begin to question his conditioning. The first thing my gym buddies said as Mir threw a kick and Lesnar caught it and took him down was, "wow that was explosive." ...that sort of feat would have been impressive for any of the lighter fighters, let alone a heavyweight. Most heavyweights simply aren't capable of that, because they don't have the strength and conditioning Lesnar showed.

 

[E_SolSi]

You can talk about technique all you want, Lesnar clearly made a rookie mistake when he was overzealous and went for the knockout, instead of sticking to his game plan and going back to his feet where he dominated.

that must be because he is so well trained and his technique is so good right???

how 'bout this... Lesnar is a fucking meat head, and his only "game plan" is to over power someone by throwing as many punches as hard as he can as fast as he can... and he obviously has no fucking clue what to do if / when that doesnt work

Also, you two are fucking joke shows for making any comments whatsoever about his conditioning. "He got winded" is your argument. Its called punching yourself out. If you're throwing punches as hard as you can, constantly, I don't care how well trained you are, you will be winded. So your argument is a damn joke.

ummm yeah thats what i fucking said... 1 minute into the fight and he is half fucking spent... why??? because he "punched himself out"... this actually backs up what i said above about his piss poor training and lack of a real "game plan"...
the fact that he is dumping all his energy in the first minute of a 3 5 minute round fight really shows how "world class" he is (he may have been at one point... but he sure the fuck isnt showing it now)... if his "training" was worth half a shit, he wouldn't have "punched himself out" so early in the fight (hell so early into the first fucking round)... mind you, im not blaming his trainers for this.. im blaming Lesnar for being little more than a fucking roided up meat head

you can continue jerking off to his picture all you want... no one here is trying to stop you or take that away from you

all that I and others are saying is "I'M NOT FUCKING IMPRESSED"

he faced a tomato can in his first fight... who he was able to win against with his "juiced out meat head at the bar / club" fighting style, "technique" and "game plan"... the fight was over quickly as he hoped and needed it to be... he tried the exact same fucking thing in this fight... and Mir was able to hang in and get him into an easily avoidable submission...
the fight simply shows that if a ref did call it before this point, the fight would have been called too soon...
hell maybe if the tomato can could have taken a punch better and made it past the 1 minute mark, he too could have beaten your "world class" boyfriend

Lesnar is not a UFC quality MMA fighter... he should be taking on the winner of the Tank Abbott vs. Kimbo Slice fight... seeing that thats the kind of fighter he is... a brawler with no stamina, lacking any real technique

 

[Capt. Orygun]

No Lesnar's training was fine, he dominated Mir until he left his leg out there. We're talking one mistake and it cost him

Other then that Lesnar was dominating him and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to hear the fans go crazy, 30 seconds after they booed him

You guys act like I predicted Lesnar would win, and I didn't, go back and read the thread.

I think he'll win but my main concern is that he'll develop "Houston Alexander Syndrome" and try do showcase all the things that are seen as his weak side, and get owner by Mir doing it. Even if Lesnar lives up the the hype (and I think he will), you simply cannot try and get too creative when you're up against a former champ who lives and dies on his Jits.

If Lesnar plays the aggressor and dictates the fight he wins, if he tries to be overly cautious or let Mir dictate the fight he'll prolly make and early mistake and be tapping in the first round.

so whats your exact prediction on the outcome of this fight silver?

I already gave as close to a prediction as I'll give, I've given up on trying to predict MMA,

so um, you're saying you "told me so", told me what? Where did I predict Lesnar? I said the guy has a huge upside and has everything he needs to win, and he proved that. Had Lesnar remained composed, took Mir's back when he had the chance, or made Mir stand up and minimize Mir's Jitz we could be looking at a whole different fight. But he's another green who got caught in a submission and that's not exactly news in MMA.

 

[totalburnout]

Blanco, you are so delusional its hilarious.

My housemate came down the stairs not 10 minutes ago and said, "You couldn't have said it better last night..." I predicted before the match that if Lesnar lost it would be from his over amibition and that Mir would put him in an ankle lock, either by sidestepping Lesnar when he came directly at him or by grabbing a leg when Lesnar rained down punches.

I also said that Lesnar only lost because he was overzealous. Apparently, even though I haven't listened to it yet, Lesnar used my exact words according to my friend. Also, apparently Mir said something like "clearly, the first minute and a half of the fight I was losing."

Essentially this was a fluke that Lesnar lost a fight that he was clearly dominating in the beginning.

 

[Briansol]

"it don't matter if you got your ass kicked first, winning is winning"

 

[get_nick]

 

[E_SolSi]

My housemate came down the stairs not 10 minutes ago and said, "You couldn't have said it better last night..."

of course he did

I predicted before the match that if Lesnar lost it would be from his over amibition and that Mir would put him in an ankle lock, either by sidestepping Lesnar when he came directly at him or by grabbing a leg when Lesnar rained down punches.

of course you did

I also said that Lesnar only lost because he was overzealous. Apparently, even though I haven't listened to it yet, Lesnar used my exact words according to my friend. Also, apparently Mir said something like "clearly, the first minute and a half of the fight I was losing."

oh abolutely

Essentially this was a fluke that Lesnar lost a fight that he was clearly dominating in the beginning.

clearly.... Lesnar lost because he was too good for even himself to handle


jesus fuck....


be honest... you cried a bit when your boyfriend lost didnt you????

 

[tunercrazed]

I'm just going to make an off the wall prediction and say mir will take it in the 2nd round by submission

not exact but I was pretty damn close eh

 

[totalburnout]

"it don't matter if you got your ass kicked first, winning is winning"

This is true. The final outcome is that Lesnar lost.

The ultimate outcome is that Lesnar won't lose, a fight he should have won, like that again.

I like Frank Mir a lot and think he's not given as much credit as he deserves, just a few months back before I got into watching the WEC heavily, I disliked Mir and thought he was a cocky ass. I feel for the guy, now that I see what a devastating motorcycle accident, that wasn't his fault, did to his life and his career. He's had his words with Dana White and had a difficult time getting the fights he has in the past year. ...hell, a few months ago Dana White was saying that Mir didn't belong as a heavyweight champ, when Mir claimed that the belt was still his when Couture took the belt from Sylvia. In the end, I think this fight was sort of a fight that was either set up to completely give Mir some recognition or to crush any last chance he left in the UFC.

I think that Lesnar would have a tougher time with a guy like Couture or Cro Crop, if he was on top of his game.

As I said before and as he proved last night, I can see Lesnar as a heavyweight champ that eats most of the heavyweight division.

I still can't get over the fact that people questioned his conditioning, ahahahaha.

 

[totalburnout]

Hey E, why don't you pop some more pills, smoke some more pot and then talk about how a world class athlete is out of shape?

Nothing like being an armchair analyst.

Blanco is keeping you good company over there, talking about punching from a horse stance and the proper way to punch... except, all the martial artists that have tried overly complicated techniques like that in mma have lost.

Keep up the color commentary. Its top notch.

 

[K2e2vin]

And that is why we all tried to tell you two fan boys that he wasn't going to just walk in and take over. But oh-no, we was just hatin' f00. We never said he sucked, just that it would take more than one year of training in completely different disciplines to face people who've been doing it for quite a while.
.

That was the whole argument the whole time. Yes he made rookie mistakes, that's because he's still a rookie. That was involved in a lot of arguments; lack of experience in a MMA environment. You guys inferred that he would still be dominate due to sheer power and college wrestling credentials. His lost to Frank Mir proves that he does not have enough experience or training. Sure, he has the power and potential, but he's not there yet.

A good example is Fedor Emelianenko. Not one of the most dominate(power-wise) fighters but has excellent skills and technique. He was getting POUNDED by Hong-Man Choi, but managed to get in an arm-bar FTW.

 

[totalburnout]

I would aliken the situation very much to that of Fedor and Choi, except Choi is simply massive and not athletic. He can't translate his size to athletic performance; I think Lesnar can, did, and will continue to do translate his massive size and strength to athletic performance. The question becomes, when will he be smart enough that he doesn't get amped up when he sees he's winning and become over ambitious and overzealous while going for the KO.

Lesnar should have had the fight.
Mir won the fight.

The outcome does show that Lesnar has a ways to go, but as I said before I would have put money on Lesnar dominating and coming in and winning the title within his first few fights. Had someone challenged my bet last night, they would be up money and I would be down. I still think that the bet that Lesnar will be heavyweight champ - if Cro Crop doesn't have a huge turn around, Couture doesn't come back, or Fedor doesn't come to the UFC - is still a good bet.

 

[E_SolSi]

Hey E, why don't you pop some more pills, smoke some more pot and then talk about how a world class athlete is out of shape?

Nothing like being an armchair analyst.

well i don't really smoke pot but once or twice a year... and i have only dropped x once in the past 3 years... but ok... will do
i am a fan of marb menthols though

and while I'm at it i will continue not claiming to be a "world class" athlete

and ill also continue pointing out the facts of the tape to little fan boys like you, who are too busy sucking on Lesnar's dick, to realize that his existence in the UFC, and MMA in general, is made up of equal parts muscle mass and hype, with little to no skill or talent to back it up... like the fact that he was gassed after 1 minute of the fight... like the fact that the only "skill" he has shown is to explode with a flurry of punches (which by the way is the exact thing that is wearing him out so early in the fight)

to this point, he is not even displaying himself as a good wrestler... all he has shown so far is that he can come out of the corner with an explosive attack... so far this approach has yielded a 50/50 result... is this approach going to make him successful??? only time will tell... personally i fucking doubt it... he will either need to change his approach drastically, or he will continue to be beaten

I think that Lesnar would have a tougher time with a guy like Couture or Cro Crop, if he was on top of his game.

sooo.... you're saying he will lose in less than 1:30???

 

[tunercrazed]

guys guys your missing the fact here...I actually had a half correct fight prediction...do you not realize what this means? To the bookies!!!!

 

[totalburnout]

Also, we just watched the fight again and there's not one point where Lesnar looks winded or tired.

Watching the fight again today, in full speed, I think Lesnar looked even more dominate the second time he took Mir down. Mir certainly didn't look to be intelligently defending himself when he only had his gloves up and was presenting no other defense to counter Lesnar's punches. He looks to have regained his composure when he has an open guard and bear hugs Lesnar's back.

Lesnar was just too ambitious trying for the knock out. Any other night, he wins that fight.

 

[totalburnout]

Once again, you clearly do not comprehend before you post. ...in fact, you may not even read prior to posting.

I just said that people would be up money if they had put their money where their mouth was but yet you all didn't have the balls or confidence that Lesnar would lose enough to the point where you took my $250 bet from old threads.

I would still put money on him being heavyweight champ. He should have won that fight, basically nothing more than the fact that anyone, especially inexperienced fighters, could get caught on any given day. The days of seeing guys being 30-1 has past for the most part and many top fighters have quite a few loses to their names.