Ugh...

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NONE of the major news stations are good, and that was my point. What you obviously want is a news station to run only bad news about kerry, which isnt going to happen (they need to cater to as many people as possible). All major news stations have covered kerry's mishaps though like his saying that foreign leaders back his campaign and refusing to ellaborate. Why dont you give me some specific empiracal data to prove your point? Until you do it is just your opinion and will be regarded as such. But if its conservative news you are looking for FOX news channel is where you will find it.
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You obviously are the one brainwashed, and not me. You obviously seem to think that only talking bad about Kerry makes the media liberal. It also includes how the media critiques anything that Bush does, or any republican for that matter. Another, issue is the releasing of the abused Iraqi soldiers. Rumsfield Army advisor called abc news, and strongly suggested not to release those photos until it was all cleared up and the investigation was complete, but they released them anyway. Why do you think they did at, after military personal asked that they didn't UNTIL it was under control. The military was willing to release those photos, but not until it was under control. But ABC did it anyway, to make Bush look bad. Why didn't they release certain evidence during Clinton's impeachment. LIBERAL!!

1. given that we later found no connections at all to saddam and al queda that means that the death of every iraqi and american is on the head of the members of our current regime. Our criminal justice system tells us that to sentence a person to capital punishment we need to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that they are guilty. Why is it that it requires less evidence and investigation to start a war than to sentence a person to death?
2. Clinton did NOT pussify the American military at all. here are some stats for you
1986 defense budget (reagan admin during the cold war, adjusted for inflation) 273 billion
1996 defence budget (clinton admin, no cold war, adjusted for inflation) 266 Billion.
Not a whole lot of difference is there, especially considering we were no longer in the cold war. In fact when Bush went into afganistan he was using clinton's military (his budget did not go through until oct 2002). He used the "pussified" military and conquered in a few weeks what the soviets and british were not able to do. Refering to the war in afganistan Lawrence Korb (asst secretary of defence for the Reagan admin and director of national security studies at the council of foreign relations) says " the military forces that executed that plan so boldly and bravely were for the most part recruited, trained, and equipped by the Clinton administration... The fact of the matter is that most of the credit for the successful military operation should go to the Clinton administration". Not too bad for coming from a member of a conservative administration is it?
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Let me get this right, in order for us to go to war, don't we vote to see if their is just cause. We ourselves don't directly vote, but we vote for our Senators and Representatives to discuss our beliefs. Well they voted, and the majority agreed that there was just cause to began a war. Yet, when we didn't find anything everyone was against the war. As for Clintons defense budget, once again he was in office during one of the best economic booms of our time, yet it was Bush Sr. budget that caused the boom, so Clinton great economic term started with Bush. Also he had much more money than Reagan did in his term so giving more money to the military and keeping it in other places isn't that difficult. As for Clinton building the military that Bush used, well good for Bush at least he used it, something Clinton would have never done.

You are definitly wrong here. The actions of our current "violent" america are not of the will of informed americans. Those who condone such behavior are influenced by the propaganda and outright lies of our current regime. Moving to france or canada will not solve the problem because if the current administration and its ilk retain control literally the world is at stake. The thing that makes the US one of the better countries in the world is our ability to change without the necessity of revolutions. To think of America as being any static thing is to do a disservice to the intent of the writters of the constitution.
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How in the hell can I be wrong on an opinion? So since our Big Brother government is so devastating to you, I am simply stating that you should just leave the country instead of living in such shitty quality, but yet you say it is the "ONE" of the greatest countries in the world, well go to a better one. I am not going to sit here and say Bush is the best President ever, I am sure he isn't but Kerry will be worse. Why? He can't make up his damn mind, I love the commercial Bush has of Kerry stating "I actually voted for the $80 million budget to support our troops, before I voted against it." WTF, and Bush is the dumb ass? What would Kerry do right now if he was voted in? Pull out our troops altogether and leave the country in bigger turmoil, with even more people hating us even more? Kerry is not going to be better than Bush.
 
Violent interrogation (yes it was wrong and some of those prisoners died for lack of cooperation), and hacking off someone's head just on video to threaten Americans ain't exactly in the same fucking ballpark. TO those who watched the video, you know that the man was not given any options other than to die. Poor bastard. I can't believe that people can compare this incident to what's going on in another prison. The terrorists have been after Americans long before the prisoner abuse was made public. Why is it that poeple see this and think "well thats just revenge for the prisoners" ? Those people have hated us for ever and that's all you 'tards can come up with? So how can you geniuses explain the charred bodies of the other contractors?
 
Originally posted by revolution8k+May 12 2004, 09:01 PM-->
revolution8k @ May 12 2004 said:
Originally posted by 94RedSiGal@May 12 2004, 08:01 PM
Loco Honkey
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revolution8k @ May 12 2004 said:
@May 12 2004, 11:08 AM
Titties.  We need titties up in this bitch.
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Since when are you such a tits man Ji? Maybe because it's spring... lol!

http://www.nice-tits.org/pics.html ;)



:p
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:lmao: Wow, those are beautiful tits!
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You like? :)
 
Originally posted by 94RedSiGal+May 12 2004, 09:20 PM-->
94RedSiGal @ May 12 2004 said:
Tonyd0821
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94RedSiGal @ May 12 2004 said:
@May 12 2004, 10:05 PM
and a little something for the ladies on here...

A guy who had his cock "closed rung" and is selling it for only 900.00 !!!!
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I don't recall asking for cock shots.... lol
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women generally dont. they just kinda happen that way.


oops, there goes my kids all over your face......OH MY !!!!

/missy elliot song "oops"
 
Originally posted by Frankie P.+May 12 2004, 07:28 PM-->
Frankie P. @ May 12 2004 said:
You obviously are the one brainwashed, and not me. You obviously seem to think that only talking bad about Kerry makes the media liberal. It also includes how the media critiques anything that Bush does, or any republican for that matter. Another, issue is the releasing of the abused Iraqi soldiers. Rumsfield Army advisor called abc news, and strongly suggested not to release those photos until it was all cleared up and the investigation was complete, but they released them anyway. Why do you think they did at, after military personal asked that they didn't UNTIL it was under control. The military was willing to release those photos, but not until it was under control. But ABC did it anyway, to make Bush look bad. Why didn't they release certain evidence during Clinton's impeachment. LIBERAL!!
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Again it is not an issue of liberal or conservative bias, but one of getting the most use of the pictures im sure they payed big for. Ratings (which was a sure bet from this) were not influenced it, not political bias. This isnt an issue of being brainwashed, but one of seeing beyond traditionaly held assumptions (i.e. imagined media bias). And i use kerry because "liberal bias" would prevent them from releasing negative press on him (as it is the goal of democrats to remove bush from office), which they do regardless of what you may think. that should make things pretty clear to you about what im saying.
How in the hell can I be wrong on an opinion? So since our Big Brother government is so devastating to you, I am simply stating that you should just leave the country instead of living in such shitty quality, but yet you say it is the "ONE" of the greatest countries in the world, well go to a better one. I am not going to sit here and say Bush is the best President ever, I am sure he isn't but Kerry will be worse. Why? He can't make up his damn mind, I love the commercial Bush has of Kerry stating "I actually voted for the $80 million budget to support our troops, before I voted against it." WTF, and Bush is the dumb ass? What would Kerry do right now if he was voted in? Pull out our troops altogether and leave the country in bigger turmoil, with even more people hating us even more? Kerry is not going to be better than Bush.
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Again, the nice thing about America is its ability to change. We may have a bunch of fundamentalist jingoists in office right now, but they can be changed. I shouldn't have to move away when things can be made better here, and they will be.
Dont you think that "greatest" is a pretty subjective word? I mean what aspect of greatness are we refering to here? Crime rate? well id have to say that on the scale of developed countries we are pretty high on the crime list. Personal freedoms; well we do have the bill of rights but some of those have been abridged by the patriot act, and not only that but as it states none of those rights are absolute. I know the list will be long and boring, but think about things like religious fundamentalism, pollution, racism, homophobia, prejudice etc etc. Those are all things that we dont usually take into consideration when calling our country the "greatest". Sure we have a high median standard of living, but we have plenty on the bottom (both in the US and abroad) that we step on to be where we are. I feel fortunate to have been raised in a country where ideals like free speach (though false) can help influence me to strive for a balance of independance and integration into society. But we have our issues, just as most nations do, though i can assuredly say that most of ours come from corperate and religious influence. So again, what qualifies our country as the greatest? is it military might? because what else aside from that do we have on other developed countries? DOnt get me wrong though I like where i live but it has a way to go before i will call it the greatest nation in the world.
And finally to address Kerry's "flip flopping". When America went to war what were we told about Iraq? you should know because you are still clinging onto it. We were told of Al Queda ties and WMD. Well following those assumptions going into Iraq would be the logical thing wouldnt it? Ok skip foreward a few months. We are now told that all of these things are false, heres the choice. You can stick by a falsly proven idea and send thousands of Americans to their deaths, and have the blood of innocent Iraqi's on your hands, or you can accept said information and do what you can to redeem your previous actions. read this for a better idea of what im talking about http://students.cs.tamu.edu/blevinsa/kerry/instances.html

Tonyd0821@May 12 2004, 07:36 PM
am i the only one who is bored of this stupid ass debate?

you people fucking bore me.
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Simple solution, don't read it.
 
Damn...I started some serious shit. lol

All I wanted to say with this is, no matter what we do, we're still cast as the enemy in their eyes. They will hate us, and they will always do way more astonishingly brutal things to prisoners than we have. The world sucks, people aren't perfect, and we're all going to go to hell. :shrug2:
 
Fuck this shit, I'm with Tony. You fuckin' people and your damn opinions aren't going to change simply by who's quoting the best information source on the web, because everyone can come back with some way to discredit or argue.

I have been going in circles on H-T with this one moron that posted a poll, and then someone else tried to argue with me, so I took their poll apart piece by piece and destroyed his arguement beyond any redeemtion, and made him look ridiculous. Then he cried about my sources for my rebutal, so I posted links, and supporting links, and then he cried that because half of them are not exactly what I quoted they are wrong and that the others since they are government sites are just propaganda. Oh yea, and when he ran out of ideas, he tried to say " you must not have had a good education" I am sick to death of the meaningless tirades of the ignorant and unwilling to accept that they might not know everything, that I want to fucking puke.
 
Originally posted by Tonyd0821@May 12 2004, 07:36 PM
am i the only one who is bored of this stupid ass debate?

you people fucking bore me.
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This thread got boring when I stopped posting.
 
Originally posted by 92b16vx@May 13 2004, 01:26 AM
Fuck this shit, I'm with Tony. You fuckin' people and your damn opinions aren't going to change simply by who's quoting the best information source on the web, because everyone can come back with some way to discredit or argue.

I have been going in circles on H-T with this one moron that posted a poll, and then someone else tried to argue with me, so I took their poll apart piece by piece and destroyed his arguement beyond any redeemtion, and made him look ridiculous. Then he cried about my sources for my rebutal, so I posted links, and supporting links, and then he cried that because half of them are not exactly what I quoted they are wrong and that the others since they are government sites are just propaganda. Oh yea, and when he ran out of ideas, he tried to say " you must not have had a good education" I am sick to death of the meaningless tirades of the ignorant and unwilling to accept that they might not know everything, that I want to fucking puke.
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Believe me, I know ignorant people will refuse to believe the truth even when they are bitten in the ass by it. My entire purpose with replying to this thread has been that this beheading stuff is beyond fucked up, but it in no way diminishes the wrongness of how Iraqi POWs were treated. With that, barring any major idiocy, i take my leave from this thread.
 
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