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Variable Cam Timing - aftermarket cam gear?

Discussion in 'General Tech and Maintenance' started by charleskwinter, Jan 9, 2008.

  1. charleskwinter

    charleskwinter ignore

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    has anyone seen any aftermarket products that offer variable cam gears for hondas?

    to expand... i have an e36m3 sitting in my garage and i am now starting to realize the worth of this motor - how special the vanos and double vanos system is that bmw has created. i know the k-series honda is using a similar technology, but why are we not seeing aftermarket cam gears for the older drivetrain? it seems like the ultimate honda would have both variable lift and variable cam timing. i did some research on the k-series swap but i am not impressed with it altogether, at least not in older civics.

    i have been doing some research and it looks like delphi is offering what i am talking about, but maybe someone else has done more research and is as interested as i am with the concept of a ls/vtec with variable cam timing. here are the sites i have found on the topic. i also noticed that there are several patents in the works...

    my personal brainstorming would involve electromagnetic actuator for some inner gear that advanced and retarded the cam... :)

    Delphi Variable Cam Phasers
    DENSO world first technology: Motor-Driven Electric Variable Valve Timing Control System - DENSO Europe
     
  2. charleskwinter

    charleskwinter ignore

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    :usuck:
     
  3. 97hatch

    97hatch ?

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    its not a bad idea but thats just one of the reasons that a k is better but to convert you would have lots of fab work and could you really tune it to make more power for your dollar NOOOOOO!!!!! thats why all that really fast drag cars dont have this feature any more thy have old style manual adujstable gears because that technology is not needed and its just some thing that can fail
     
  4. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    The fastest Honda's usually remove variable valve timing; reason is when you run bigger cams(duration-wise) you run into interference issues when you advance or retard the cam timings.

    If you have ever noticed; some of the fastest K-series have VTC removed and replaced with a adjustable cam sprocket.

    Variable timing, including the VANOS system, is very nice but more suited towards daily driven cars. Most of the time a variable lift system(in the case of Honda, it's technically variable lift and duration, since the VTEC lobe can be completely different from the non-VTEC lobe) will work just as well or good enough vs. variable timing. A good example is the black top 4AGE's and the D16Z6's or B16s. The 4AGE features variable timing but doesn't doesn't offer the same powerband as the B16. The higher revving 4AGE's usually have variable timing disabled also.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2008
  5. charleskwinter

    charleskwinter ignore

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    ok thanks for the info... i really like thinking critically about these things, and seeing as i was able to get a lot of power out of the d16a6 with head work, i have been kicking around ideas to get even more. i had someone help me tune the d16a6 with a street cam, p&p and adjustable cam gear set a few degrees -ret. at the time i did not know why but i trusted the guy and it was surprisingly torque-y. the only thing that still is a bit of a puzzle for me is why people are suggesting that under full throttle at mid rpm's the vanos or ivtec is advancing the cam timing. in principle i can see, in my head, the valves changing from retard to advance and back to retard, but i am still not sure on the advantage other than how the remaining burned fuel and its flow is affecting the incoming air/fuel. is it just as simple as having the peak of the cam closer to the upper end of the intake stroke, allowing more volume? ...complicated but i love it...

    either way, i guess i am now less obsessed with the idea of a constantly variable cam gear. i am sitting on a stock 90si and can't decide whether to save weight and still get plenty of power from the mini me, or go for major torque with the ls/vtec. i think i like the idea of the lightweight, which is why i love the crx so much. thanks again for the help and insight... :)
     
  6. philyphreak2127

    philyphreak2127 Back in the Game

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    that is why everyone loves crx's a near 1800 curb weight stock is pretty useful in the tuning world when thinking power to weight ratio. I would love to find a clean crx shell to drop my f22b2 into. It is getting closer to being turbo ready, and when I put a turbo on this thing, and find a suitable shell it will fly.
     
  7. charleskwinter

    charleskwinter ignore

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    Honda's K20A Engine

    great article on the principles of the i-vtec (k20a). i have also been reading about the 3-stage vtec with the d15b... will this head not drop on to the d16 block? i think i will stay sohc... :)
     
  8. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    Yes the 3-stage head will bolt up. If you're looking for performance, I'd skip the 3-stage VTEC head. It's best if you want excellent MPG but still have a peppy motor(in other words, it's a simple daily driver engine).

    Timing is important because air flow isn't instant. Instead, if you can time it so the valves open or close when the piston is at a certain spot, you can optimize your power. Problem is, at a certain timing it's only good for a certain range in the RPM band. Changing that timing will allow you to move the powerband where ever it's needed. Advancing the cam usually means more low-end, and vice versa. Problem with variable timing, is when you run large cams you have less margin for advancing/retarding. Also, variable timing doesn't address lift like VTEC and VVTL.
     
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