VTEC all the time

[kylelohrenz]

We just started a swap on an 84 civic hatch for the strip, gutted the car to nothing and we are considering a b16a1. With some knowledge from our last 5g civic swap to a b16a2, v-tech occurrs at around 5000 RPM. We launch that car at about 6200 RPM and never reach below say 3700 down the track. We had an idea of running the new swap in v-tech all the time to keep it running on the wilder cam, with the exception of pits, staging, etc. Is this possible by powering the v-tech solenoid or is the computer going to freak?

 

[jamesA]

Originally posted by Blanco@Dec 6 2004, 02:38 AM
Just leave your phone on 24/7.  V-Tech makes phones, Honda's have VTEC.

I believe that's what Toda's VTEC Killer Cams are for.  Why not just go with a really aggressive cam in a non-VTEC head?  Since you're not really going to be using it anway.

[post=426900]Quoted post[/post]​

haha ^^


The a2 vtec cross over is 5500 stock, I don't know how you launch at 6200 without spinning the hell out of the tires though. I bet your clutch looked like burnt toast after a few launches like that.

Having VTEC cross over at idle is NOT going to help you at all. Honda engineers set it at a certain level for a reason. Larger cams with a lower vtec setting will destroy what little power the b16 has on the bottom end as it is.

 

[asmallsol]

Toda and crower both have cams that make it so vtec is always on. On the toda set, there is just no center lobe. On the crower set, both sets are exactly the same so there never is any switching. Really, VTEC really is a driveablity feature then a performance feature. If your putting around below vtec on a roadcouse, its time to downshift. Also, for those who say a honda can not be streetable with really agressive cams and no vtec are wrong. Buddy of mine has crower 404 cams on his b18b, and the thing is perfectly streetable and actually thinks that it is more then before.

 

[kylelohrenz]

Originally posted by revolution8k+Dec 6 2004, 02:08 AM-->

Blanco

@Dec 6 2004, 02:38 AM
Just leave your phone on 24/7.  V-Tech makes phones, Honda's have VTEC.

I believe that's what Toda's VTEC Killer Cams are for.  Why not just go with a really aggressive cam in a non-VTEC head?  Since you're not really going to be using it anway.

[post=426900]Quoted post[/post]​

haha ^^


The a2 vtec cross over is 5500 stock, I don't know how you launch at 6200 without spinning the hell out of the tires though. I bet your clutch looked like burnt toast after a few launches like that.

Having VTEC cross over at idle is NOT going to help you at all. Honda engineers set it at a certain level for a reason. Larger cams with a lower vtec setting will destroy what little power the b16 has on the bottom end as it is.

[post=426904]Quoted post[/post]​

 

[kylelohrenz]

Originally posted by revolution8k+Dec 6 2004, 02:08 AM-->

Blanco

@Dec 6 2004, 02:38 AM
Just leave your phone on 24/7.  V-Tech makes phones, Honda's have VTEC.

I believe that's what Toda's VTEC Killer Cams are for.  Why not just go with a really aggressive cam in a non-VTEC head?  Since you're not really going to be using it anway.

[post=426900]Quoted post[/post]​

haha ^^


The a2 vtec cross over is 5500 stock, I don't know how you launch at 6200 without spinning the hell out of the tires though. I bet your clutch looked like burnt toast after a few launches like that.

Having VTEC cross over at idle is NOT going to help you at all. Honda engineers set it at a certain level for a reason. Larger cams with a lower vtec setting will destroy what little power the b16 has on the bottom end as it is.

[post=426904]Quoted post[/post]​

Slicks- Do you race?

 

[projekteg]

Originally posted by kylelohrenz@Dec 6 2004, 12:04 PM
Slicks- Do you race?

[post=426990]Quoted post[/post]​

lol, what are you running some 28" slicks. and no, you don't want vtec all teh time, period. if you understood how vtec works and how it affects performance, you would already know that that's a dumb idea.

 

[Havok]

There is a reason VTEC does not activate until 4800-5600 RPM's on the motors. You COULD have it crossover at 1500-2000 RPM's in the same aspect that I COULD brush my teeth without toothpaste.

 

[sohcslammer]

Originally posted by projekteg+Dec 6 2004, 12:05 PM-->

kylelohrenz

@Dec 6 2004, 12:04 PM
Slicks- Do you race?

[post=426990]Quoted post[/post]​

lol, what are you running some 28" slicks. and no, you don't want vtec all teh time, period. if you understood how vtec works and how it affects performance, you would already know that that's a dumb idea.

[post=427027]Quoted post[/post]​

You guys are missing the fucking point. <_<

Kylelohrenz -

asmallsol was right, what you want isn't VTEC all the time, it's a non VTEC head with an aggressive set of cams. Look at it like this, VTEC is two cam profiles - you only want to use the more aggressive one. So just get a LS cam with a gnarly profile instead of a VTEC cam with a race profile and a gas saving profile. Also a ported and polished LS head can flow every bit as well as a VTEC head. Fuck VTEC.

 

[b204dr]

b20vtec n/a motor done by sua in minnesota ran vtec constantly - in any application its up to the driver to know how to drive his car and control the circumstances@

 

[asmallsol]

again, it can be done, but not with a stock engine or stock cams. I wouldn't doubt if you could pull it off with stock cams but your car is going to run horrible. The cams made for permant VTEC are far from stock.

 

[MaaseyRacer]

A lot of Honda Challenge guys fudge the rules, and run in VTEC at all times. It helps out with oil pressure lose, causing the car to fall out of VTEC in tight turns. However Honda Challenge is cracking down on it now, so a lot of guys are just running oil coolers now. For drag racing I can see two cam profiles being useful, I would keep VTEC set at 4800-5800 depending on what works best for your set up. The only way to reall find out where vtec should be set is to go to the dyno.

 

[darien234]

Originally posted by MaaseyRacer@Dec 6 2004, 01:32 PM
A lot of Honda Challenge guys fudge the rules, and run in VTEC at all times. It helps out with oil pressure lose, causing the car to fall out of VTEC in tight turns. However Honda Challenge is cracking down on it now, so a lot of guys are just running oil coolers now. For drag racing I can see two cam profiles being useful, I would keep VTEC set at 4800-5800 depending on what works best for your set up. The only way to reall find out where vtec should be set is to go to the dyno.

[post=427082]Quoted post[/post]​

Over 200 people have viewed this post already, Its not been up a whole day yet.

 

[nfn15037]

Originally posted by MaaseyRacer@Dec 6 2004, 01:32 PM
A lot of Honda Challenge guys fudge the rules, and run in VTEC at all times. It helps out with oil pressure lose, causing the car to fall out of VTEC in tight turns. However Honda Challenge is cracking down on it now, so a lot of guys are just running oil coolers now. For drag racing I can see two cam profiles being useful, I would keep VTEC set at 4800-5800 depending on what works best for your set up. The only way to reall find out where vtec should be set is to go to the dyno.

[post=427082]Quoted post[/post]​

A) it won't fall off VTEC unless it gets starved for oil and drops pressure, so a baffled pan would help this, what does an oil cooler have to do with keeping pressure up?

and
B ) I can think of two corners off the top of my head at Sebring where I fall off VTEC, and it is not worth going down a gear, so for ~1k RPMs or so the motor is on the big cam when it shouldn't be assuming VTEC is always on, so whats the point of that? Having two cam profiles IS useful in roadracing, where the RPMs go up and down a lot, however in a drag car, launching in VTEC then blasting down the track makes VTEC a moot point, since it never has the opportunity or need for the small cam lobe.

 

[kylelohrenz]

Hey, Thanks you guys for the information, I'll check out the LS head and see what comes of it. I appriciate most of your comments!

 

[brian11to1]

Just so you know you cant put a nonVTEC head on a VTEC block.

 

[sohcslammer]

Originally posted by kylelohrenz@Dec 6 2004, 03:34 PM
Hey, Thanks you guys for the information, I'll check out the LS head and see what comes of it. I appriciate most of your comments!

[post=427157]Quoted post[/post]​

You want the LS motor. Not just the head.

 

[MaaseyRacer]

Originally posted by nfn15037+Dec 6 2004, 12:07 PM-->

MaaseyRacer

@Dec 6 2004, 01:32 PM
A lot of Honda Challenge guys fudge the rules, and run in VTEC at all times. It helps out with oil pressure lose, causing the car to fall out of VTEC in tight turns. However Honda Challenge is cracking down on it now, so a lot of guys are just running oil coolers now. For drag racing I can see two cam profiles being useful, I would keep VTEC set at 4800-5800 depending on what works best for your set up. The only way to reall find out where vtec should be set is to go to the dyno.

[post=427082]Quoted post[/post]​

A) it won't fall off VTEC unless it gets starved for oil and drops pressure, so a baffled pan would help this, what does an oil cooler have to do with keeping pressure up?

and
B ) I can think of two corners off the top of my head at Sebring where I fall off VTEC, and it is not worth going down a gear, so for ~1k RPMs or so the motor is on the big cam when it shouldn't be assuming VTEC is always on, so whats the point of that? Having two cam profiles IS useful in roadracing, where the RPMs go up and down a lot, however in a drag car, launching in VTEC then blasting down the track makes VTEC a moot point, since it never has the opportunity or need for the small cam lobe.

[post=427143]Quoted post[/post]​

A) Cooler oil is thicker, thicker oil is more dense. The greater the density of the oil, in a tight turn where oil starvation can happen, can lead to the car coming out of VTEC. Also I do not think honda challenge allows for baffled oil pans. They are trying to keep costs down at the moment.

B) Great, well when you are racing competativly and another car stays in VTEC through those two turns that is prescious 10ths of a second that you are potentially loosing. I do see what you are saying about the cam lobes though, but to run VTEC killer cams in a car that is not full race is pointless. I am not sure what this guy plans to do with his car, but I am going to say if he is running a B16 he is going to want to build that puppy up before he goes to Vtec Killing cams.

 

[beerbongskickass]

I can't believe you guys are recommending an LS head over a Vtec head lol. The PR4 head is the biggest piece of shit head known to man kind. The cams... are junk. There are very few people making big power on LS heads. Why? because even after all the porting you do, and a nice big set of cams, your not going to outflow a Vtec head. People swap to vtec heads because they make more power and a funnier to drive.

 

[asmallsol]

umm you can run a VTEC head but not vtec aka toda vtec killer cams or the crower version.

 

[nfn15037]

Originally posted by MaaseyRacer@Dec 6 2004, 04:45 PM

B) Great, well when you are racing competativly and another car stays in VTEC through those two turns that is prescious 10ths of a second that you are potentially loosing. I do see what you are saying about the cam lobes though, but to run VTEC killer cams in a car that is not full race is pointless. I am not sure what this guy plans to do with his car, but I am going to say if he is running a B16 he is going to want to build that puppy up before he goes to Vtec Killing cams.

[post=427196]Quoted post[/post]​

You are missing the point. Being in VTEC doesn't automaticaly make the car faster, it has to be at the right RPM, so if the car is at lower RPMs, it should be on the small lobe. Thats the whole point of VTEC is to have good power at low RPMs and a screaming high RPM. If you were on VTEC too early, there would be a nice fat flatspot in the powerband until you had enough RPMs to warrant the big VTEC cam lobe.

I guess it is a moot point anyways, any person who would be potentially running VTEC killers and 14:1 compression isn't going to be asking us what we think