Vtec Bashing

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the point is that you AREN'T on the high cam under normal driving conditions.

VTEC allows a car to both idel well, and have a great top end.

how many muscle cars do you know that have cams that dont idel for shit?

how many muscle cars do you know with stock cams that make power above 7500?

point proven
 
Originally posted by lsvtec@Mar 2 2003, 12:51 AM
While the B20 has more torque than the ITR, the ITR has much more tunability. With the right cams and the right tuning, the ITR has the potential to have a much broader torque curve than the B20.

All the Yota drivers I have known personally have been really touchy about how fast their cars are compared to other cars on the market. Escpecially Supra drivers. I love the sig from the auto Supra driver
If it's not a Supra, it's not fast.

Ignorance must be bliss.

They are probably sick of having their asses handed to them by cars that cost a third of what they paid! :D
 
Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Mar 2 2003, 02:28 AM
the point is that you AREN'T on the high cam under normal driving conditions.

VTEC allows a car to both idel well, and have a great top end.

how many muscle cars do you know that have cams that dont idel for shit?

how many muscle cars do you know with stock cams that make power above 7500?

point proven

Soo .. VTEC is essentially a performance option?

The car idles well, doesn't suck down the gas .. and when you want power, u rev high. Essentially, all of your fuel effeciency is coming from the lower portion of your rev... which is non-vtec.
 
LT-1 or LS-1 Camaro can have a nice bumpstick in it and not have a "rough" idle.

There was a Chevelle back in november, sounded damn near stock. No lope, pulled and made a low 12 second run.

How many muscle cars do you know with stock cams that make power above 7500?

None that i know of, but how many FACTORY vtec honda's do you know that can take a factory z28/SS or svt cobra? I note.. not a damn one.
 
Originally posted by Domeskilla+Mar 2 2003, 12:25 AM-->
pissedoffsol
@Mar 2 2003, 12:02 AM
and low end torque (more than there would be without it anyway)

Then why does ls and b20 make more tq? They dont have vtec. None of the vtec engines produce more tq then a b20. ITR makes the same i think 140 (or is it 130)

Non-vtec owns the tq department. (in b-series anyways)

ACTUALLY, we can strap the lil ole lude on the dyno, i bet it makes more torque than the b20 :) the h series has the most torque... period.
 
Originally posted by Afipunk21+Mar 2 2003, 10:28 AM-->
SolReaver
@Mar 2 2003, 03:25 AM
boost>vtec>no vtec

wrong!

It's VTEC>no VTEC>Kia>LS/T

Keep in mind, while driving a Kia there is the constant potential that the car will just burst into flames. Yes, you'll be driving down the street, and all of a sudden your car will light up. Chances are Kia invested all of 2 dollars into some sort of safety system, so you can expect to slowly burn, and then horrifically die.

Kia is still greater than LS/T? :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by lsvtec@Mar 1 2003, 11:53 PM
We need a dickhead emoticon. :sleep:

Noted. I'm working on the others too- hopefully will have them up tonight, along with CRX pictures. :)
 
Originally posted by Domeskilla@Mar 2 2003, 03:18 AM
None that i know of, but how many FACTORY vtec honda's do you know that can take a factory z28/SS or svt cobra? I note.. not a damn one.

i think the s2000 can hang, same with the nsx. better power to weight ratio!
could be wrong.

are u talkin about top end, or off the line, auto cross?

i would say any thing accept top end!
 
Originally posted by H0ndap0w3r+Mar 2 2003, 05:22 PM-->
Domeskilla
@Mar 2 2003, 03:18 AM
None that i know of, but how many FACTORY vtec honda's do you know that can take a factory z28/SS or svt cobra? I note.. not a damn one.

i think the s2000 can hang, same with the nsx. better power to weight ratio!
could be wrong.

are u talkin about top end, or off the line, auto cross?

i would say any thing accept top end!

What does the s2k run in the 1/4? The new 6 speed svt cobra here runs 12.2 stock and the camaro is high 13's low 14's or so.

Yea.. the s2k might hang and NSX might not take it till top end.. that is more of an exotic car.. and not to many of them are fast in the 1/4..

I was talkn 1/4 mile :)
 
the s2k runs a 13.3 stock, but for a 2liter 4 banger that is impressive, the new svt cobra is supercharged, that is why it is so fast also has more than twice the displacement of the s2k, even though you want to diss on the s2k you cant cause there is no domestic with that kind horsepower per liter naturally aspirated
 
Originally posted by ShouLinPanther@Mar 2 2003, 06:06 PM
the s2k runs a 13.3 stock, but for a 2liter 4 banger that is impressive, the new svt cobra is supercharged, that is why it is so fast also has more than twice the displacement of the s2k, even though you want to diss on the s2k you cant cause there is no domestic with that kind horsepower per liter naturally aspirated

I wasn't "dissing" it. I like fast cars in general, i dont care if its a domestic or import. I know the new svt cobra is sc'ed. I wasn't stating what is what.. B said something about domestics, so i said i dont of one that can beat it.. he didnt say.. n/a making X amount per liter. It was a broad statement.. so i took it as that. :)
 
Originally posted by lsvtec@Mar 2 2003, 01:00 AM
Thanks, but I'd rather not have to see that...

I was thinking more of the :whatafucktard: style expect it said what a dickhead or something along those lines.

Please keep your junk off the board. :D Please...

What did I ever do to you? I just simply was helping to clear things up. Don't call me a dickhead because I may be knowledgable, yet new to the board. I never flamed any of you.
 
s2000's run 14.0's stock.

now, let me respond to the misinformation in this thread. for some reason, and i think its brian who is responsible, people on this site are really into the b18b. this motor is great, compared to say a d16z, but its far inferior to a b16a, b16b, b18c, and type R motor. for those who favor ls motors, i'd like to know what kind of power you've been able to make with it...all motor...and with boost. i will promise you a turbo gsr motor will always make more power, and a b-series vtec all motor setup will always make more power and more torque when tuned properly...(given the displacement is the same)

now why is this?

because vtec is badass technology...and it allows us to use two cam profiles during low rpms and high rpm's. what this allows is a very driveable setup where the motor makes good power throughout the power band. this means, we can have a cam profile that works well at lower rpm's, and makes good power, and then can move to a larger cam and make more power...up top.

toda vtec killer cams are only for race motors, and are designed to only work at high rpm's. the low end power with a setup like this is going to be terrible. now with a non-vtec crv/ls motor, there is only one cam profile and that means a smaller and less tuneable power band. yes, you could theoretically design a cam to make better low end, however it would make less power up top...and vice versa. there is no compromise here, as the cam profiles directly affect one another at high and low rpm's. this is why the b18 runs out of power at 7k. and yes, you can get crower cams that make better power up top, but the low end will suffer. honda has really come up with a great compromise and tuned this motor pretty well.

now with turbo, all that needs to happen is tuning and the use of a milder cam like gsr's and a VTEC motor will ALWAYS make more power. the same as said above applies to a turbo setup. frank, at south florida performance just made 800+hp with a turbo b18c motor. now why isn't he using an ls head?

well first, the ls head flows like shit. honda didn't really design it to flow that well because it flows well enough at 6700rpm...and thats all honda was looking to achieve. now a vtec head flows infinitely better and that is the first advantage. secondly, the cams (franks are custom ground) allow him to tune the motor for both high and low rpms.
 
Chet ... why doesn't the b18b flow as well as the b18c?

The flow doesn't correlate with VTEC .. since they are basically autonomous things (or so I believe ..).

Frank seems like an extreme example of how well a b18c can do... I can only imagine how well a b18b could do with enough boost.

Basically, it boils down to... the question that's been posed here a million times... which engine has the most workable potential for the least amount of money. When you go to the extremes, any motor could be rebuilt entirely to make it perfect. From what I've gathered here .. it seems like the b18b almost always wins that argument.
 
Originally posted by gupta_p@Mar 3 2003, 02:15 AM
Basically, it boils down to... the question that's been posed here a million times... which engine has the most workable potential for the least amount of money. When you go to the extremes, any motor could be rebuilt entirely to make it perfect. From what I've gathered here .. it seems like the b18b almost always wins that argument.

How is starting with less going to end up with more?The only advantage the LS has over GSR is it cost less to begin with.
 
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