well, it passed.

[reckedracing]

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

70 years is too long according to T Jefferson

ban lobbyists
ban corporate donations
let those motherfuckers in office represent the PEOPLE
the majority of the people that is

fuck this representing only the poorest and richest

 

[EGProject]

Yeah, everyone stop paying taxes. That's great. Then they will just levy us and everyone else for 200x what we owed them. The IRS doesn't just collect money, they ruin lives. They are really good at it. So unless you plan on going off the grid permanently, not paying taxes will do nothing to stop the bullshit. We've really gone too far, conventional politics cannot stop what is happening now. What it will take is something far more profound, something I don't think the majority of the people sitting on their couches will get up for.

Call me a conspiracy theorist but what its going to take to change policy is a total reboot of government on a total scale.

 

[Battle Pope]

Part of the problem is that DC has spent decades elevating itself from everything else, to the point that "common people" don't see it so much a place as a mythical plane which mere mortals dare not tread. Politicians are detached from reality in a profound sense, to which the regular citizen now fears their government rather than the inverse.

We gave them the power, and we can take it away - but at what cost?

 

[phyregod]

is there a course of action proposed somewhere in there that i am missing???
or are you just pissing and moaning about the obvious current state of things

I am hopping into the crowd. I don't care, because there is not one god damn thing I can do about it short of becoming a lobyist myself and dedicating my life to bribing politicians and pushing my beliefs on others.. Fuck that.. I voted. I always vote. That is all I can do. I am not part of the hand out welfare group, so my vote is null and void. The people have voted every one of these crooked fucks into office, and nothing is going to change because welfare people are running the country right now. We can't overthrow a government that the majority of the population approves of.

 

[klyph]

Yeah, everyone stop paying taxes. That's great. Then they will just levy us and everyone else for 200x what we owed them. The IRS doesn't just collect money, they ruin lives. They are really good at it. So unless you plan on going off the grid permanently, not paying taxes will do nothing to stop the bullshit. We've really gone too far, conventional politics cannot stop what is happening now. What it will take is something far more profound, something I don't think the majority of the people sitting on their couches will get up for.

Call me a conspiracy theorist but what its going to take to change policy is a total reboot of government on a total scale.

Obviously, you have to be willing to kill for your liberty, which is your patriotic duty. If the IRS came to me and said they were taking my house, I'd wish them luck.

I realize that in most places this line of reasoning would be considered lunacy, but here, there are enough people with the same line of reasoning, that the IRS recognizes that the tinder box is full and dry and they had god damned better keep their matches stowed.

 

[phyregod]

Doctor's offices are going to face hoards of people. We'll be remembering the two hour waits at the doc's with fondness. They will be overrun with people looking for medical attention for colds and other minor, needless shit. Just because they can. Not to mention all the druggies and those who couldn't be bothered to work and pay to fix existing ailments.. But will now seek care because it's free. Good luck getting an appoinent with less than a year wait.

 

[EGProject]

Given the right circumstances I'd gladly tell the IRS to try and take my belongings, but seeing as most people in the country are too complacent to act, a small group of people not paying their taxes and shooting IRS agents will likely die a quick anonymous death, and their plight spun by the left wing media into nothing buy lunacy. For right now, all I can do is vote, enjoy the freedoms I do have and hope for the best. Come the day they knock on my door and demand my firearms, my property or my money - well, we all know.

 

[95b16coupe]

Good luck getting an appoinent with less than a year wait.

i disagree. i'm going to call up and say, "i have private insurance and paying everything in cash".

i'll move to the front of the line. right past welfare whores and crackheads. and if you think healthcare providers wont do that, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[DarkHand]

We can't overthrow a government that the majority of the population approves of.

This is the elephant in the room. We whine and moan about these people, but these people are in favor with the majority of the population for the most part. Mainly due to being blinded by left vs right bile.

That sure as heck isn't unintentional, but it leads you right back to the quote.

 

[Drake]

i disagree. i'm going to call up and say, "i have private insurance and paying everything in cash".

i'll move to the front of the line. right past welfare whores and crackheads. and if you think healthcare providers wont do that, you are sadly mistaken.

That only works if you have more than 2.75 doctors in your pre-approved coverage area.

 

[klyph]

This is the elephant in the room. We whine and moan about these people, but these people are in favor with the majority of the population for the most part. Mainly due to being blinded by left vs right bile.

That sure as heck isn't unintentional, but it leads you right back to the quote.

I think our best option is to confederate into nation states. The states would be responsible for providing ALL government services with no Federal taxes. Don't want to pay for govt. health care? Move to a state that doesn't provide it, and thereby has cheaper taxes.

 

[95b16coupe]

I think our best option is to confederate into nation states. The states would be responsible for providing ALL government services with no Federal taxes. Don't want to pay for govt. health care? Move to a state that doesn't provide it, and thereby has cheaper taxes.

the unfortunate thing is that so many people compare us to europe. i want to kick people when i hear them say, "well europe does it". europe is independant nations. they don't have states with separate government. want a 20% income tax? sure i do. i just know what i'm going to get taxed at. i'd be more than happy knowing everybody gets fucked just as hard as me. value added tax? sure, throw it at me. but you better fucking get rid of sales tax or i'm screwing your daughter and stealing your car. i get fucked, you get fucked.

right now we have federal tax, state tax, sales tax, and different county taxes. the big city has a 9.9% sales tax and bfe has 7%. wtf?

give me one big tax and leave it at that. this shit is fucking gay. no wonder nobody wants to buy anything, the government taxes and tariffs anything and everything worth owning.

 

[invisibledemon]

Absolutely pathetic. She had no response to anything that you said, so she just went off on a Bush rant which basically comes down to, "Well, yeah, Bush did some shit that might have been unconstitutional, so why can't Obama?"

i know that was what was a kicker for me.

in case it hasn't been mentioned yet, this bitch is fucking stupid. where was this posted at? link?


E, are the red names the ones who voted FOR the bill?

yeah, obviously she doesnt actually know what she talking about.
its on facebook. im not sure if her profile is private, just click her name highlighted in blue, ut should link you to her.
Jonathan is me (in case you didnt get that lol), and the vanessa is a friend of hers.

and theres more, just going to past it all in order:

Nate Hagar Don't wanna jump into this clusterfuck but here goes!

I consider myself to be a conservative. Not a republican, not right wing, just a conservative. I think the healthcare system could've been reformed to a better degree. 1. Don't deny people with preexisting conditions. 2. Allow anyone from any state to purchase insurance across state lines. Those two reasons alone would put the insurance companies in a panic and give us more rights than take away more rights.

Mind you, I literally just woke up, so sorry if this isn't very structured.... See More

I'd consider my parents to be middle class. You may assume that since they are that everything was handed to me on a silver platter which is untrue. I've had to work and pay for everything in my life, albeit if I'm in a bind my parents do help me out.

Bigger government run ANYTHING is a terrible idea. They can't and won't be able to run anything better than private companies. Private companies provide(or in this case the private insurance companies should provide competitive pricing as to allow all Americans to choose the cheapest best plan for them)for competition. Without competition we'll have one outlet to go to for healthcare.

just sayin'


Vanessa Tippett competition is key. agreed. however, you can't let insurance companies pick and choose who they want to cover, which is what they have been allowed to do. problem.

health insurance shouldn't be connected to one's job. that's a clusterfuck.

the government can do things well. ... See More

the bill should have done more to control healthcare costs.

this isn't a class war. who gives a fuck if you're middle class? that's not the issue. everyone is at risk of getting sick. I don't know anyone who can afford the havoc a disease like cancer would cause. finanically or otherwise.

as Americans, we can do better than what we're doing.

alright, peace. I'm out.




Nate Hagar Vanessa, the government can do things well but let's face facts most of the times they cater to lobbyists.

The bill should've reformed healthcare to the specs of the two points I made in my last post.

Crystal, what happened to being all punk rock and fuck the gov't and this that and the other lulz



Crystal Fxcking Deris k. imma make some points.

1. jon, you must be high as fuck because 4 yrs ago you were old enough to vote.

2. nate, youre a weinerhead pubeface that can suck it. (jk) i was never uberpunkrockalles the way youre describing. ... See More

3. ness. i am sorry about your mother. i cant even begin to imagine how difficult it must be.

4. my original statement was "all of the ppl i see bitching about the issue are conservatives, right wingers, and upper middle class". and if you need further explaination: those are the people that i, personally, see complaining, not the people that it helps. just sayin.

5. i just wish they had implimented something like this yeaaaarrs ago. look, i havent been able to go to the doctor in years for fear that it would send me into debt. crazy right? letting money stop me from getting well.. yeah, unfortunately im not the only person that feels that way or they wouldnt have done this. i went to the doctor because i HAD to last year due to a baseball sized absces on my neck. luckily i was in california and knew people and was told about cmsp. i seriously got the bills and started freaking out.. it went up to nearly $700 at one point.. luckily, i held out aand cmsp took care of all but 88 bucks.

i actually waited to see if the abscess would go away.. and after about two weeks it was literally 3/4 the size of a baseball.. it was agonizing pain every single day and i was so sleep deprived.. if i would have waited longer than i did, the infection would have went into my spinal collum...

i just dont want babies, children, adults, and elderly too scared to go to the fucking doctor because it will fuck them financially.


Crystal Fxcking Deris ps. gov't can suck the living fuck out of it along with all those phallic head shaped followers.

ha.



Brett O'Keeffe hey, i'm a conservative and i don't really mind the healthcare bill.


Crystal Fxcking Deris Then you're rad



Jonathan Butler well, honestly i can see that you are one of those people that no matter how many truthful, proven facts are put in front of you, you already know whats correct in your mind. im not going to try to take the time to change your mind.

all i will say is this: Wait and see.

and also, bush started his war in his first term, by the time the second election came around, there was nothing voting him out of would have fixed. which also makes me wonder this: our glorious president promised to end this war that bush started, but have you seen that happen? no. he's actually sent out more and is starting on another country. ... See More

like his promises on the campaign trail, this health reform will go belly up.

just wait and see.





Crystal Fxcking Deris and i can see youre one of the people that insists on wearing their vaginas on the outside and happens to get sand in it in the process..

on a different note. learn how to take a joke and dont be a crybaby if people dont agree with you.

and it took 8 yrs to get the war going. really think we can pull out in less than 5 months? youre ridiculous if you think so. ... See More

either way, i was done with this conversation long ago. i appreciate everyones input. but i wanted a light debate, not personal attacks.

so its done. either way, whats done is done. if you dont like it, move. hahaha.




Crystal Fxcking Deris Correction: march 03 was iraq. overseas started in nov 01. so, its not 8yrs to get it going.. its actually over 8yrs in the making. just sayin. cant tear 8yrs down in 4 months.


Chris Deris To add to that, Obama HAS withdrawn troops from Iraq. And has focused more troops in Afghanistan in an effort to end that war as well. The shit aint gonna happen overnight.






yeah, apparently the nate guy has some common sense about him.
and it looks like her husband only has input on the war issue.

 

[eg'sforlife]

Crystal Fxcking Deris

This chick has done nothing but resort to middle school name calling to try and prove her point.

 

[invisibledemon]

yeah, i know. its sad really. i have nothing else to say to her.
like i said, she'll just have to wait and see.



also, came across this website:
Tenth Amendment Center| The 10th Amendment Movement

seems like an interesting read. i havnt read all of it yet

 

[Drake]

Tell that chicks husband that Obama is withdrawing troops based on Bush's the Warmongering Neocons time table. If he has two brain cells to rub together that will shut him up.

 

[invisibledemon]

Pretty good stuff from another forum im on:

The bill is unconstitutional, hows that for fact.

Close to forty states are considering and I imagine will file suit as soon as BHO signs the bill. Once this happens we will see the true depths of Obama's "change".

85% of Americans are happy with their health care, it is not and has never been a crisis. Only .5% of the nation ends up bankrupt due to health care cost. I wonder how many of those had a 4,5,6 or 700 dollar a month car payment but bitched about a 200 a month health care premium? The fix for health care and to bring cost down was a simple one. 1.Tort reform to start. Cap the lawsuit lottery payouts. This would bring down malpractice cost, un-needed test Doctors admit they do to cover their ass and eliminate the Ambulance chasing frivolous lawsuits. 2. Stop health insurance as a benefit. Unions brought us company paid benefits through legal extortion. Because of that health insurance companies found a golden goose. By putting the product back into the mainstream market it will create competition. As with car insurance you would find that the market will be more competitive. 3. Open the markets up across state lines. Again competition increases bringing cost down.


I am sure people like Mustard will espouse the huge success of the European socialist system. Thats all well and good but there is a reason many of those people seek out health care in the United States. Rationing, long waits and poor care. All of which this bill will give us. I await Mustards usual response of international polls showing us how the United States sucks as compared to Europe.

By government mandating insurers cover preexisting conditions and that they must not charge anymore than they otherwise would, will run up our premiums. You see the insurers will just raise our rates to compensate for money they are forced to loose on others. We will see an exodus from the health care field once the government starts mandating fixed fees for services. Why would someone spend 300-500k to become a doctor only to be told that they are not worth more than a UAW line worker? That will lead to an influx of foreign doctors who do not meet our standards and our care will suffer.

This has never been about health care it is about the progressive culmination of 100 years to eradicate liberty in this country. Obama believes that you ignorant masses are unable to fend for yourselves, that America was founded on flawed principals and that he is it's devine Saviour. When in fact he is little more than an inexperienced, ivy league educated Chicago thug who can give good speeches provided he has his TelePrompTers. You have to ask yourself why a political party would completely dismiss its constituents will and more or less commit political suicide? Get beyond the dogma of "helping those in need" and look into what the bill really means. What we have seen done is the corruption of our checks and balances system. A President who acted like a child wanting a toy did all he could to subvert the system. He will do this again when it comes to giving amnesty to illegals. Be ready. He does not believe in our system he has contempt for it. He is un-American, un-patriotic and seditious toward our nation.

This is not over. The "fix it" bill will be hacked up by the senate eliminating much of the payout Obama used to buy votes and then it will go back to the House for a re-vote. That is just the start. Once it is challenged in court all aspects of the bill be stopped until the Supreme Court rules. And then there are the fall elections. Rise up, be heard and take action.

Well i guess you didn't realize that 55% (not .5%, as .5% is the percentage that tort reform will reduce total national health care spending) of all bankruptcies are due to health care.


Which bring me to another thing.....People whine and whine about the debt constantly about how we cant afford to do anything, but somehow we have the money to round up 20million illegals and send them back....last time i checked...plane tickets to mexico and south america aint cheap, so isn't jail time nor court costs.

Those 20 million people also support the local businesses around them

How about of having them pay a fine of about 1k per person..and then paying to do it the right way?!? wont that bring down the debt that everyone likes preaching about


Obviously people dont do enough research to find out that insurance companies aren't completely the problem (they only make a 4% profit off your insurance). The problem is health care costs themselves. We pay More per capita on health care than nearly every nation on earth (We are the 3rd highest IIRC)


The 85% of people who like their health care....will keep their health care.
The biggest reason why the cost is so high is because the uninsured who use the ER and dont pay, or cant make the payments, & the Ppl with Pre-existing conditions.

The current system is heavily flawed.

Read the damn bill. and form your own opinions people.

Simply saying the bill is flawed, without even taking a look at it is stupidity at its best.

heres the link to the thread
Health Care bill just past @ 0050 on 22Mar'10 - TennSpeed

 

[invisibledemon]

Tell that chicks husband that Obama is withdrawing troops based on Bush's the Warmongering Neocons time table. If he has two brain cells to rub together that will shut him up.

thats the problem, i dont believe either of them have those two necessary cells.
arguing with idiots is pointless.

i get further with untrained dogs.




http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/22/health.care.lawsuit/index.html?hpt=T1
ten states to sue so far.
hopefully more will join.

 

[Briansol]

nuff said.

 

[Drake]

nuff said.

What in the fuck is going on here. I am a complete loss for words.