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What exactly is "bad" camber?

Discussion in 'Wheels / Suspension / Tires / Brakes' started by Citizen_Insane, Oct 4, 2005.

  1. Citizen_Insane

    Citizen_Insane Senior Member

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    When I got my car aligned, the readout for the camber was -1.5 on one side and -2.0 on the other. How much should I worry about this?

    I got it aligned right after installing my KYB AGX's with GC coilovers. The drop is only about 1", and I checked to make sure all the springs were set at the same height (all my fender gaps are the same). Ideas?
     
  2. bunson2001

    bunson2001 Member

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    The only way to correct the front camber to my knowledge it to get a camber kit installed. Bad camber is when your tires look like this / \ or like this \ / . You can correct the rear camber with washers and longer bolts.
     
  3. hondapop

    hondapop Junior Member

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    I believe that most will tell you that some negative camber is not much of a problem and actually helps with handling. I heard a general rule of thumb is don't do anything with -1 or less. Over this amount tire wear will be seen. I just finished lowering a 95 hatch by about 1.5 inchs. I have -1.8 left front and -1 right ( and -1.5 on the back). I plan to shim the back to bring it to about -.5 and add upper control arms with the adjustable ball joints to the front. Shim kits are about $15 and the arms are $180...good luck
     
  4. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    negative camber is your friend :) you just need a tire budget to support it.
     
  5. dohcvtec_accord

    dohcvtec_accord WRX Sellout

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    Negative camber in itself will usually not lead to excessive tire wear (unless you're talking 2 degrees or more), but toe will definitely eat your tires more quickly.

    Also, it helps to know what you're looking for. If you're drag racing, camber is not a good thing. Auto-x/road racing, it can be a good thing as long as it's not excessive.
     
  6. phyregod

    phyregod !!YTINASNI

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    -1 degree. any more than that NEEDS to be corrected.

    -2 degrees will eat tires. Dont be stupid and find money to support your tire habbit. If your car is eating tires, fix it.
     
  7. dohcvtec_accord

    dohcvtec_accord WRX Sellout

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    Well, negative camber without toe won't neccesarily "eat" tires. They'll wear the same as a non-cambered tire....on the inside of the tire only, where the rubber is contacting the pavement. So yes, excessively cambered wheels will adversely affect tires, but it won't wear them prematurely without other problems affecting them.

    EDIT: My WRX has a factory-set rear camber of -1.5 degrees. Wonderful for cornering, and doesn't wear any more than the front, which has a factory setting of -0.5 degrees.
     
  8. Citizen_Insane

    Citizen_Insane Senior Member

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    Well, I almost never drive the car, and its going to be used for AutoX so I think I'll be fine. Maybe a camber kit will be nessisary if I get a job. Mostly I was worried about the different right/left cambers, this isn't going to adversly affect the handling will it?
     
  9. CRX-YEM

    CRX-YEM Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    and remembering to rotate your damn tires. I've been on the same set of tires for 3 years with excessive negative camber.
     
  10. 92dxhatch

    92dxhatch Senior Member

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    no kidding!!! [​IMG]
     
  11. Mattyg2

    Mattyg2 Junior Member

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    isnt it better to have more negative camber in front and less in rear to reduce understeer in fwd? so like would -1.5f then -1.0r would be a good setup for an integra?
     
  12. phyregod

    phyregod !!YTINASNI

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    For a track vehicle, I'd go -2, -1.. or maybe even -2.5, -1.. On a honda, yeah, for the understeer.

    But a street vehicle NO MORE than -1,-1. After lowering mine, I'm going to have it dialed in at -1,-.5.
     
  13. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    on a track car, i'd have between -4 and -5 up front and -3 to -4 in the back.
     
  14. phyregod

    phyregod !!YTINASNI

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    If you do too much, you start losing contact patch
     
  15. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    5 degrees.... thats barely even noticable on a compass or angle cutter.....

    it takes about 30 degrees to be on less than half of a tire's width, assuming 0 offset.

    you're loosing the very outer edge... maybe a cm or 2. but in doing so, you're set up to grip hard when you turn, and with the counter angle of roll induced turning, the tire ends up flattening out as its pushed, thus giving you the MAXIMUM contact patch where its need most-- in a hard corner.
     
  16. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

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    http://www.turnfast.com/tech_handling/hand...ningtable.shtml

    <span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%">Camber:</span>

    Function:
    Adjusts the vertical angle of the wheel (the amount of tilt towards or away from the body). Some amount of negative camber which tilts the top of the wheel into the body is the norm for high performance cornering.

    Optimum:
    Maintains a flat tire contact patch during cornering to maximize grip for highest possible cornering speed. For street driving more than 1 degree negative camber will prematurely wear out the inside treads. For racing it's common to use as much as 3 degrees on a road course.

    Too Little:
    The deflection of the tire during corning will lift the inside edge of the tire off the track reducing the contact patch size.

    Too Much:
    The outside edge of the tire is prevented from reaching the track surface even under cornering, which reduces the tire contact patch. Also limits the contact patch available during accelerating and braking. Straight line driving will be less stable.




    for all of you straight line "racers", you want 0 degrees.... straight up and down, that will give you your best contact patch

    for people who like to carve through the twisties regularly, and tend to corner a little harder than normal people, you could definatly get away with a little extra camber... i wouldnt go quite as aggressivly as i would on a track car, but a few degrees negative will help you more than it will hurt you... and if you are cornering hard enough to use the outside edge even with the aggressive camber setting you will still maintain decent and even tire wear (actually better than if you didnt have enough negative camber)

    for track use you really should have an adjustable camber kit and tune it for your specific needs (the settings will be different for every track)

    so if you notice that you are rolling and wearing the outside edges and your tire pressures and alignment is good... you need more negative camber
    if you notice that the inside of your tires are bald and the outside still looks new and your alignment is good... you need less negative camber

    so as you can probly guess there is no perfect number that will work for everyone, every car, or every situation
    camber is a good thing, IF YOU USE IT.... and 9 times out of 10, in all honesty, "too much negative camber" is just a nice way of saying you corner like a bitch [​IMG]
     
  17. jamesA

    jamesA Well known pissed off telephone guy VIP

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    Holy Shit E, once again [​IMG] to you for finding some badass information.
     
  18. CRX-YEM

    CRX-YEM Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    I will give E props as well, not for finding the information, Because he knows this shit like the back of his hand.
     
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