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WHICH ENGINE???

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by EXmitsuDRIVER, Mar 24, 2004.

  1. EXmitsuDRIVER

    EXmitsuDRIVER Junior Member

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    Hey, im new with Hondas and dont know to much about swaps. After loseing my Mitsubishi EVO a few weeks back, i purched a 1998 Honda Civic Hatch back. My Civic has nothing in it. NO ENGINE NO TRANNY NO NOTHING. So im starting totaly fresh.

    Im sure some of you Honda pros are going to think im a total retard and hate me for asking this but if i could get ne help that would be great.

    I saw a 98 Honda Hatch that put out 800 HP. it was turbocharged but i have no clue what the engine was! i think they said the block was a race block but i have no clue. what Honda engine can put out 800 HP? or do i have to do a custom setup? money isnt really an issue and nore is reliability (this doesnt have to be street legal)

    If i just wasted your time im very sry. and if you have any info that would be great.
    Thank You
     
  2. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    If money and reliability aren't a problem, yeah- you can put out 800hp. The fastest turbo Hondas out there on the drag strip right now are putting down something in the range of 1000whp, so it's doable given the proper resources. That 1000whp on the B series block isn't on gasoline though, so forget filling up at the pump.

    :)

    The most I've seen on a street driven Honda engine is about 650-700whp. That's a LOT. Your basic formula would be to take the largest block you can find, beef it up and make it even bigger, then feed it a ton of boost and have someone really good tune it. You can make a pretty ridiculous amount of power on pump gas with a Honda engine + boost, but then you're going to be looking for traction and drivability...

    How much money do you really have to spend?
     
  3. EXmitsuDRIVER

    EXmitsuDRIVER Junior Member

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    So id want to go with B block? i can get ahold of B-18C5 easy. or should i get like a H22, iv seen ppl bore those out to 2.6L. iv heard alot of crap about that engine tho. but right now in spending money i have around $41,500. No lie. alot of that money was from insurence from my EVO. that was a fun car. 500+HP at the wheels. Thanks for the help
     
  4. Slammed90Lude

    Slammed90Lude Senior Member

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    holy HUGE BANK ACCOUNT BATMAN!

    -seriously though, i would recommend checking out The Beast- it's a honda block made by dart (i think) and it's a good starting point- Then you're going to have to build it like any other wild horsepower motor- Stronger rods and pistons, an upgraded drivetrain, if you end up with an open deck block (the beast is a b-series block i believe) then you're going to have to sleeve the block hardcore JdM style in order to run enough boost at a high enough CFM to make the stated horsepower- building a block to handle gobs of boost like that and finding a turbo that will make that kind of power won't be as hard as trying to find someone that can put a good tune on it

    -here's a setup that makes about 491 horsepower and 388lb/ft of torque- But with a bigger turbo and slightly better block work and crankshaft this setup is more than likely capable of running quite a bit more power

    B18C Block
    JE Pistons(9.0:1), Crower rods, Ferria valves, Type-R intake manifold, ported and polished head, o ringed block with ductile iron sleeves

    Garret T3/T4 turbo, spearco intercoller, open exhaust, HKS wastegate and BOV, JG enginer dynamis throttle body

    Accel DFI Ignition, Crane HI-6, Crane PS92, 550cc injectors, Paxton fuel pump

    Clutch Specialties Hypertype w/iron disc, cusco LSD

    THis is not a build that i've done, nor completely agree with, however it did make the above power and is a good exmaple of the extensive modification that will be necessary the first thing i would upgrade to is a larger turbo, capable of flowing A TON of CFM at a slightly higher boost ratio- honda motors are built to love tons of air coming in at once- this is certainly not the best build or anything like that, but it gives you an idea of the parts you're going to need in order to run insane boost and pull insane timeslips

    good luck
     
  5. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    if you have 40 grand, why in gods name are you messing with hondas?

    :buyanm:
     
  6. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

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    :withstupid:

    if i had $40K to spend i wouldnt be fucking with a honda... well maybe id pick up a honda for a daily driver, but thats about it
     
  7. jwn7

    jwn7 Member

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    ya really. :buyanm: i can't believe you're building a $40k honda. honda's are great, but a lot of us mess with them just because they're so damn cheap (relatively speaking). but if you're sticking with the hatch, $40k is gonna build you a pretty decent car.

    i take it you don't plan on turning your steering wheel too much?
     
  8. EXmitsuDRIVER

    EXmitsuDRIVER Junior Member

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    Thanks for all the info so far. Slammed90Lude i checked out the Dart block, so that s a good place to start? You really seem to know ur shit, lol thanks for th help.

    and for all the M car fans, i love the M3 my friends parents just got one about a week or 2 ago. SICK car, but all the money i have is just what i got back from my dead EVO. so i dont think i can come up with money to keep a car like that.

    But no i really dont think ill be doing to much turning. You kinda give up ur handling for drag racing. oh well
     
  9. xj0hnx

    xj0hnx I wanna be sedated VIP

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    No way, you make a Honda handle exceptionally well, and still put down some serious power. Look at www.importbuilders.com for some of their pre built motors. They can also custom build you one if you tell them what you want. if you stay in the B series family, other than the aorementioned traction issues, handling is no problem, for around $2500 (since you have cash to spare) you can be zipping through the twisties at break neck speeds :).
     
  10. EXmitsuDRIVER

    EXmitsuDRIVER Junior Member

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    so i dont have to give up much handling for foward proformence? im new to front wheel drive, iv raced AWD and RD but im pretty much clueless about FD. thanks for the web sight, i was looking at blocks and heads and i kept seeing IB Spec. does any one know what that is? and what car carries the K24 engine?




    Thanks to everyone who has posted me. This forum has been the best one i have been to so far. its not full of assholes who treat u like shit cause u dont know as much as them. this has been alot of help. Thanks
     
  11. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    IB Spec is just their name for their stuff... "Import Builders Spec".

    You can build quite a powerful car and still have suspension able to handle the twisties- you'll just have to learn to drive the power curve of your engine. I'm guessing that won't be a problem for you though, since you've already had a 500hp Evo- that engine was probably pretty peaky with a pretty wicked spool, right?

    If you've got $41k to spend, and you really want to do it on a Honda, you might want to get something pre-built, or built for you. You can easily get 500whp on a B series engine with boost- then focus on the chassis and suspension.

    Where are you located? You might want to find a reputable tuner in your area, then talk to them about building something for you.
     
  12. EXmitsuDRIVER

    EXmitsuDRIVER Junior Member

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    yeah i really want to build up a fast Honda. People around here that own muscle cars rag on imports so much that it got anoying so i sold the Camaro i had and got the EVO. But still there excuse when i killed them was that it was AWD so my goal is to do the same killing in a FD Honda as i did with the EVO.

    That car was a blast. I worked my ass off to get it but its gone now. But that engine just snaped you back into the seat like no other! I had the HKS GT3037S with a new header; HKS racing external wastegate; HKS Racing Blowoff Valve Type II; HKS intercooler; HKS custom oxygen sensor housing, oil feed and return lines; custom downpipe; custom intakepipe. along with al the fuel and piston upgrades i had to do. The thing was crazy boost wasnt what i expected, but only for the 1st few thousand RPMs after about 3.5G that thing shot u off like a gun.

    NE ways im located in Vancouver WA. theres a shop called Ground Zero im going to check out later.
     
  13. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Ah, you're way up in the NW corner of the country. :)

    It sounds like your Evo was quite a ride! If Ground Zero isn't used to building high power Honda engines, just get with Import Builders and have them build one, break it in and tune it, then crate it up and send it to you. They can do all that, then all you have to do is install it. Hell, with the mony you're floating around, you might want to just have the car delivered to Jeff and have him build the engine right into the car. It's better that way. This obviously isn't your daily driver, so I'm guessing you can deal without it for a few months, right?

    If you want to put down that much power and race on the street, you're going to have to spend some cash on the suspension to make sure you don't lose traction. At the track, you can run wheelie bars- but not on the street. Good luck getting wheelie bars past the cops! I would spend a good amount of money making sure that your car can put the power down on a hard launch. The only problem is- if you have a good drag race suspension capable of putting 500whp down on the ground through the front wheels, you're not going to handle too well in the curves.
     
  14. EXmitsuDRIVER

    EXmitsuDRIVER Junior Member

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    So IB woudl take my Honda put the new engine in it and break it in too? wow, sounds like a good deal. i think i can live with out for a while. where are they located?

    Yeah about the suspension, i want to find a ballance between pure drag and handling. i want my car to run low 10s or 9s. IDK if thats possible to do and try to keep handling. what should i be looking for to put the power to the ground on a hard launch? If I need a wheelie bar ill do it lol. cops are the least of my concerns. thanks for the info
     
  15. jamesA

    jamesA Well known pissed off telephone guy VIP

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    I thought that you were supposed to save that type of shit for the Members lounge and keep it out of the tech areas?
     
  16. kyleirwin

    kyleirwin Retired OG

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    high 9's / low 10's will be difficult to do in a "street car". you'll definiately be able to make the power to get those times, it will just be difficult to get the traction to run those times on a streetable suspension. one thing for sure is that i would go with a full-race turbo kit, they have hands down the best turbo kit on the market. check 'em out at http://www.full-race.com/ . if i were in your situation, i'd want to kinda do a bit of research and pick my own parts rather than just shipping my car off and getting it back a couple months later and not knowing much about it. i don't know... maybe that's just me though. and i believe IB is in florida. groundzero is also a pretty repuitable shop, it would probably be worth it to give them a call and see what they say.
     
  17. jwn7

    jwn7 Member

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    ok so you've got a shitload of money, and you're building a turbo honda for drag and hoping for 10s. :D this is what i would start looking into. i haven't thought of this until now, this is just a general idea. the letter K is gonna be your friend in this project; 10s will be way easier with the K than with the B, as long as you have the $$$, because a lot of stuff will be custom, since these motors are newer.

    K24 bottom end sleeved
    K20A head
    upgraded valvetrain
    fat turbo cams
    pnp head
    forged pistons and rods
    knife edged crank
    K20A2 tranny with quaife lsd and carbon synchros :)
    good clutch and flywheel
    good exhaust (no exhaust would be ideal)
    aem ems or better and a good tuner
    fluydine radiator
    oil cooler
    crazy fuel delivery
    etc

    i'm an NA guy, so i can't really suggest any turbo parts for you. i don't think lovefab is making manifolds for the K yet.

    if you've got that kind of $$$ i would still do a K swap instead of a b18. if you're gonna go all out, go all out.
     
  18. vtecsir1

    vtecsir1 Senior Member

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    look at cheese frogs 97 hatch www.cheesefrog.com hes putting down like 400 plus to the wheels and its pretty fast. hes doing it on a b18 non vtec. or the blue monster hatch is running 10's that was posted in the auto multimedia froum here, look into there setups or even what pissedoffsol has in his garage. importbuilders have some sick motors that come to your door ready to go they would probably be your best bet.
     
  19. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Cheesefrog's isn't the only way to do it... he's easily in 11 second territory though. 11s are doable on a streetable setup, but 10s and especially 9s are extremely difficult. The only Hondas running 9s are pretty much track only vehicles, and they're not really safe to drive on the street. Safe being heavy enough to withstand a crash, pass a visual inspection, be a daily driver etc.

    Low 10s all motor these days typically takes a car with about 260-280whp with super short gearing, that weighs only 1600 pounds with the driver. With a heavier car, you'll definitely need a ton of boost. I doubt that your EK hatch can make it down to 1600 pounds with you and an engine swap in it while remaining in a form that looks like it belongs on the street- maybe 2000 pounds if you're really lucky.

    Import Builders is in California, not Florida. They can install, break in and tune your engine for you- but of course it's going to take some extra money to do so. They do mention it on their web site though, so you can definitely have it done. Start calling all the top shops, because most of them don't even have cars running in the 9s in full drag strip form. It's going to take a lot of money and a lot of custom work.

    Good luck! High 10s to low/mid 11s might be a more realistic goal if you want to be able to drive this thing on the street.
     
  20. Slammed90Lude

    Slammed90Lude Senior Member

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    :withstupid: he's absolutely right on every- Calesta ownz j0000000!
     
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