Which Sleeves, Which pistons?

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Why would you have to have more piston to wall clearance with a closed deck sleeve? Do they heat up more, or is the metal different, or what? For comparison, I am going with an LA sleeve (AEBS) closed deck configuration, and my machine shop is charging like 950. When I asked them how much power they would hold, they laughed, and said I will never need to worry about cracking a sleeve. Ever. Period. They have a 3 axis CNC mill dedicated and setup only to mill honda blocks. Their work is sweet, I saw some of the blocks they had built and they looked fantastic. The holes that they machined into the deck exactly matched the coolant holes in the head perfectly. I cannot see any less heat dissipated by their closed deck setup than a GE open deck setup. Please let me know your thoughts with regards to the piston to wall clearances.
Mike
 
Mike, lets hope your pistons stay vertical in this build. :fingerscrossed: I'd hate to see those nice looking sleeves scarred again.
 
Jeff- I don't really know anything about the AEBS T sleeves except for what they look like in a picture. The water jacket area looks pretty well braced- that's all I'm going by. I don't know what other aftermarket sleeve companies besides GE and AEBS have braces in the water jacket.

Mike- pistons staying vertical shouldn't be a problem. The pistons overheating is what caused the scarring last time, and once the clearances went to hell- that's when the piston really started to rock around. At least that's what I assumed happened anyway.
 
whenever you have metal surrounding the hottest part of the sleeve (the top 1/2 inch or so) your going to have not as good cooling as say, GE where that area is not surrounding it.

So less heat dissipation means more heat that is built up inside. This means MORE piston expansion.

this is not a knock on AEBS at all, just a simple scientific observation based on design. their sleeve is good, and yeah..I laugh too.

It can probably handle 60 PSI boost.

So listen..

If you go with that sleeve, if the piston install clearance is say..

.003 then put them in at like .0035 to be safer. Otherwise, remember what I said when you have the car tuned well and you start burning alot of oil.

DO NOT BE AFRAID of piston noise at idle, its no big deal at all. you want to install pistons with MORE clearance than you might need if you are worried about burning oil at all.

Some companies put .0028 on the box for their reccomended install clearance...this is a obvious mistake...as many, many customers are burning oil and they don't know why.

I know why...its too tight for a car thats not tuned well...and trust me...60%+ or so (guess) of the people that are driving around with built motors don't have a "great" tune.

I wish I could take everybody i sell pistons to, and stand there and guide them so their car runs like a champ, but I can't so I try and tell people and explain to them WHY things work the way they do.

I believe my customers are some of the most informed import racers out there. Informed customers means happy customers.

Jeff
 
Ok, that's the conclusion I was coming to also. More material at the top = more total expansion, also less cooling which = bad.
 
That is what I was thinking regarding the expansion stuff. I am sure my engine builders are very good at their work, since they do many of these sleeve jobs, so I am not worried about the build quality, but I'll ask them about it when i see them. I am not worried about any piston noise at all. After all it is the nature of forged pistons. Are OEM honda pistons steel, or are they aluminum as well? I know they are casts, but wasn't sure about the material used. Also, why would oil start to be burned? Are the rings gonna get toasted, will they start binding with the walls?
 
Actually the more people that post or pose additional questions the more info I and others are able to get.Thanks to calesta and posting the pic of his block, I decided to have Jeff (Import builders) do my block build, I was going to do it myself but he has a very good deal for sleeving and a build that I couldn't pass up.
P.S Jeff how much boost (PSI) Will a 84MM sleeved block hold?
30-40 PSI?
JIM
 
Just a note- that block picture I posted is NOT my block.
 
Not exactly. The sleeving on that block was not done through Jeff. It was done by Golden Eagle, which is the same company that Jeff apparently prefers for aftermarket sleeving.
 
:D Thats cool, a fair representation of sleeving.
Just trying to figure out how much boost the sleeving will hold. 30-40 PSI?
 
I always hear the 70psi number being thrown around as what GE likes to supposedly say their blocks will hold... and just looking at the design and material composition compared to stock, I'd say 30-40psi shouldn't be a problem at all.
 
honestly, to boost 30-40 PSI, people don't have any idea how much money that costs to even suggest doing that. ALOT of money.

I suggest leaving motors at 20 PSI or less for financial reasons, and the fact that on the stuff we have, over like 1 bar is almost too fast already.

Jeff
 
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