which swao to go with

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yeh i guess i will have to see what kinda prices i can get from my guy and see if its that much of a difference... if its only a couple hundred bucks i will go with the GSR
 
i have had both b16 i like the vtec better-----GSR is just a GSR i like the GSR better and stock vs stock GSR is a little noticeable stronger------but in my 92 hatch i had an LS and i loved it i would smoke fools and they be like what you got------ JUST AN LS---- LS have good power when you throw some bolt ons on there----- Just go B series Moral of the story go buy what you want and tell us what you bought----------------------!!!
 
i was saying all B series are good VTEC or not------ LS engines love the turbo----- GSR is the more HP Vtec engine once again buy what you want and tell us what you get
 
o i will definatly keep everyone updated... LS motors do love the turbo. im just thinking that i wouldn't enjoy it as much as the gsr until it was boosted
 
Of course you wouldn't enjoy it as much as the GSR before you boost. The GSR makes more power N/A. I say base it off what you want once boosted. Any of the motors you pick are going to be a huge difference over stock. As said, there really is no replacement for displacement....except boost :D More displacement does mean more low-end torque though, and it certainly will make your turbo will spool up quicker. DOHC is nice, and so it VTEC.
 
for sure man well im most likley goin to go with the GSR. iw ill keep everyone updates... i am not buying this motor for another couple weeks so if anyone else wants to throw in some more in put that would be awsome... thanks every one
 
For GSR turbo you might consider a LS tranny---- i have heard with turbo the little bit longer gears are better especially if daily driver
 
For GSR turbo you might consider a LS tranny---- i have heard with turbo the little bit longer gears are better especially if daily driver

That's not necessarily true. Yes, it can help with traction issues, but making your car slower to deal with traction problems is a shitty solution. A better solution would be to spend a few bucks on some traction-enhancing parts (LSD, sticky tires, suspension, maybe a traction bar, etc.).

Shorter gear ratios are usually better for acceleration, regardless of whether you're N/A or boosted.
 
Take a look at the specs of the engines you are considering:

B16A SiR II 1595 170@7600 116@7000 10.4:1
B18B1 1834 142@6300 127@5200 9.2:1
B18C1 1797 170@7600 128@6200 10.0:1

While the C1 has 30 more HP it only has 1 more Torque. The B1 peaks 1000 rpms sooner than the C1 and way sooner than the B16A. The B1 has lower compression so it will respond better to boost and allow you to put more boost in it compared to the C1. My understanding is the only difference between the B1 and C1 is the VTEC head and a longer stroke on the B1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you get the same performance off the line and only changes with the C1 when the VTEC kicks in. You can still do an LS/VTEC too, but some say not to do that if you are planning on a boost.

Overall I think (if you drive like I do) you will be slightly more satisfied with a B18C1 as you will with a B18B1 unboosted (LS/VTEC is probably the best unboosted). However you will be more satisfied with a B18B1 boosted then you will with a B18C1 boosted. Plus your wallet will be fatter.

Someone more qualified please verify all statements I made. I'm still new enough to be very wrong. Is the SiRII the right B16A engine? I wish we had charts for each stock engine to really compare the numbers.

Since I want to go boost I am seriously looking at the B18B1 and getting it ported and polished before the swap.

Other
 
Take a look at the specs of the engines you are considering:

B16A SiR II 1595 170@7600 116@7000 10.4:1
B18B1 1834 142@6300 127@5200 9.2:1
B18C1 1797 170@7600 128@6200 10.0:1

While the C1 has 30 more HP it only has 1 more Torque. The B1 peaks 1000 rpms sooner than the C1 and way sooner than the B16A. The B1 has lower compression so it will respond better to boost and allow you to put more boost in it compared to the C1. My understanding is the only difference between the B1 and C1 is the VTEC head and a longer stroke on the B1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you get the same performance off the line and only changes with the C1 when the VTEC kicks in. You can still do an LS/VTEC too, but some say not to do that if you are planning on a boost.

Overall I think (if you drive like I do) you will be slightly more satisfied with a B18C1 as you will with a B18B1 unboosted (LS/VTEC is probably the best unboosted). However you will be more satisfied with a B18B1 boosted then you will with a B18C1 boosted. Plus your wallet will be fatter.

Someone more qualified please verify all statements I made. I'm still new enough to be very wrong. Is the SiRII the right B16A engine? I wish we had charts for each stock engine to really compare the numbers.

Since I want to go boost I am seriously looking at the B18B1 and getting it ported and polished before the swap.

Other

Yup, SiR-II is the JDM variant. aka P30.
 
cool, well i will definatly think of the LS swap.. i can get a complete ls swap for 1300 bucks
From what I read the LS tranny isn't one that is recommended. Most people say to go with a GSR or b16a tranny. I have also gotten conflicting reports and some say that the b16a is better on the 1/4mile while the LS is more fun 0-60. GSR being the best option if you are a no holds bar spend all the money you have type of guy.

Other
 
I have heard the sir tranny has the shortest gears, then the gsr, and the ls has the longest gears so it depends on what you plan on doing with the car....road course I would suggest ls tranny, drag sir.
 
From what I read the LS tranny isn't one that is recommended. Most people say to go with a GSR or b16a tranny. I have also gotten conflicting reports and some say that the b16a is better on the 1/4mile while the LS is more fun 0-60. GSR being the best option if you are a no holds bar spend all the money you have type of guy.

Other

It's not quite that simple...

You're talking about three different motors here, all with different characteristics. Their transmissions are geared to reflect those characteristics. For example...

The B16 doesn't make much torque, but thanks to its VTEC, it makes decent horsepower up top. Therefore, the B16 tranny has short gears and a short final drive, the point being to get the engine up into the higher RPMS (where it makes it's power) more quickly, and to keep it there between shifts.

The LS engine doesn't make as much horsepower as the B16, but, due to the larger displacement, makes more torque down low. Therefore, the transmission is geared longer to allow you to take advantage of the low-end torque and lower, narrower power band.

The GS-R combines the best of both motors, the high end power provided by the dual-cam VTEC, and the low end torque provided by the larger displacement. Accordingly, the transmission is a compromise between the B16 and the LS; 1st and 2nd are geared the same as the LS, while the higher gears are somewhat shorter, as is the final drive ratio.

The answer, in my opinion, is to just buy a complete swap and use whatever transmission was originally meant to go with the motor. That way, it's a guaranteed match to the engine's characteristics.

The exception would be if you've built your motor. Let's say you have a built LS, with an upgraded valve train and cams that make power all the way to 8,000 rpms. In that case, you may want to upgrade to a GS-R or B16 tranny, which will carry you up through the RPMs faster to where the motor is making power.

If you're just swapping a stock motor and doing bolt-ons however, I'd just stick with whatever tranny was originally paired with the motor.

Hope that helps...
 
yeh definatly helps... thanks alot everyone. right now im still leaning towards the b18C1
 
i think it's funny my stock JDM B16 beat a stock B18C1, both motors in coupes. consider that
 
i think it's funny my stock JDM B16 beat a stock B18C1, both motors in coupes. consider that
Bad head, bad driver, bad tranny, bad tires, bad suspension, bad gas, overconfident, under achiever, VTEC not working properly, needs to be tuned, gremlins, heavier car, etc. There are too many things to consider why you beat a stock B18C1. Based on the performance charts those two engines working and tuned properly in the same car driven by the same driver with the same road conditions will produce a win by the B18C1 every time.

Now the B16a vs the B18b is a toss up stock. If you are using the stock tranny for both then the B16a will win, but using the B16a for both then the B18b will win, but it will be close because of the higher RPM of the B16a. If you turbo both the B18b can take more boost and will quickly overrun the B16a.

I think we can spend days just trying to get the best engine possible for all possibilities and drive ourselves crazy. The fact still remains that with a stock engine the B18C5 is the fastest, but cost the most. B18C1 is the next fastest and is still expensive. B18b is great with boost (can take more because of lower head pressure) and isn't that expensive. B16a is the "standard" tuner engine and therefore has a bunch of aftermarket parts and can be purchased for around the same as the B18b. D16z6 is also a great engine, but not tuned as widely as the B series engines.

If your car came stock with a D16Z6 or a B16A then I wouldn't recommend a swap and just do a rebuild with high performance parts and port the head, but if it didn't then swap to either of those, or if the money is good the B18c. My new goal is to make anyone who buys the Evo X cry that a little civic just schooled them for 1/4 of what it cost them to buy that POS. :D

Other

EDIT: Maybe I can help an Evo X driver meet a tree at high speeds. Then they will be really crying for years afterwards when they are still having to pay payments on a car they totaled.
 
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Bad head, bad driver, bad tranny, bad tires, bad suspension, bad gas, overconfident, under achiever, VTEC not working properly, needs to be tuned, gremlins, heavier car, etc. There are too many things to consider why you beat a stock B18C1. Based on the performance charts those two engines working and tuned properly in the same car driven by the same driver with the same road conditions will produce a win by the B18C1 every time.

Now the B16a vs the B18b is a toss up stock. If you are using the stock tranny for both then the B16a will win, but using the B16a for both then the B18b will win, but it will be close because of the higher RPM of the B16a. If you turbo both the B18b can take more boost and will quickly overrun the B16a.

I think we can spend days just trying to get the best engine possible for all possibilities and drive ourselves crazy. The fact still remains that with a stock engine the B18C5 is the fastest, but cost the most. B18C1 is the next fastest and is still expensive. B18b is great with boost (can take more because of lower head pressure) and isn't that expensive. B16a is the "standard" tuner engine and therefore has a bunch of aftermarket parts and can be purchased for around the same as the B18b. D16z6 is also a great engine, but not tuned as widely as the B series engines.

If your car came stock with a D16Z6 or a B16A then I wouldn't recommend a swap and just do a rebuild with high performance parts and port the head, but if it didn't then swap to either of those, or if the money is good the B18c. My new goal is to make anyone who buys the Evo X cry that a little civic just schooled them for 1/4 of what it cost them to buy that POS. :D

Other

EDIT: Maybe I can help an Evo X driver meet a tree at high speeds. Then they will be really crying for years afterwards when they are still having to pay payments on a car they totaled.

all i know is, at the time of the race, i had full interior, stock suspension, stock motor mounts, still had AC, power steering, short ram intake and catless-back exhaust, rims/tires, toda lightweight flywheel and action 2KS clutch. while he had no AC, no back seats, lowered with what i dont know, rims/tires, catless-back exhaust, short-ram, lightweight flywheel and aftermarket clutch. we raced from a slow roll. beat him by a length racing to 100mph.
 
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