1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Which swap? and other general questions. B series EG

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by PdxEG, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. PdxEG

    PdxEG New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    So im still new to civics but read alot on here and similar forums and am starting to plan which b series swap I would want. All input is greatly appreciated.

    Objectives: Primarily a fun daily driver that still gets around 30-35 mpg combined, and less importantly could be raced later on. wHp anywhere from 150-180, and enough torque to not make it not feal gutless around town and is reliable and will last me long term (5-10 yrs). I just wanna smile everytime i drive it.

    Budget: This isn't set in stone but somewhere around $6-7k would be the max for the entire car, but preferably less..including wheels and suspension.

    Options: in order of most viable to least.

    GSR b18c1-over all solid choice but spendyish
    LSVTEC-assuming its build by a reputable shop, with good components (What kind of specs hp/lb/mpg can i expect on average as i realize their are tons of variables?)
    k series...I know the least these but much more expensive
    b16 variant..-cheaper than b18 but less power, better mpg I would think?
    b20 vtec- similiar to lsvtec but less potential combinations and more expensive but more torque (What kind of specs hp/lb/mpg can i expect on average as i realize their are tons of variables?)

    So as you can see im trying to find a nice balance of power/mpg/reliablity/daily drivablity/affordability so if you can let me know your expeirence with any of these engines in the above domains especially price I would love to hear it.


    Other general questions:
    -does raising compression also raise effeciency(hp/tq/mpg/airflow) or just power and thus lower mpg?
    -Do jdm engines(obd1) pass emisisions in portland, Or or states? What is the strategy with deq? Any reputable shops or references for the North West? And in general it seems like the best strategy to find deals on built cars is to buy them complete, rather than import engines/building them and have a shop install, is this true, exeptions?
     
  2. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

    Messages:
    28,465
    Likes Received:
    228
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    Dallas / Fort Worth, TX
    For your power goals and budget, a refreshed GSR would probably work best- you'd get factory reliability and not have to mess with the block to get the performance you want. I've seen stock internal GSRs with just intake/header/exhaust and a mild set of cams make almost 200whp on the dyno on pump gas.

    For $6-7k though, I think you'll be looking on the cheap end of all your swaps, especially since you want to include the car, wheels and suspension...
     
  3. PdxEG

    PdxEG New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Yea Gsr seems to be the best option, but I don't know how to make it fit the budget...whether it be try to find all the individual peices off craigslist and peice it all together or try to cheaply import one..or try to find one already swapped. Any ideas on how to keep costs down? Do jdm engines usually have problems passing emisions/deq? I live in Oregon if that makes a difference.
     
  4. civicjason

    civicjason Member

    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    think big and find a roller chassis for $1000 and go J-Swap ... contact trackmasters in Huntsville, AL he might can tell you closer to what it'll coast for sure than I can though ... I wish I could have went with a J-swap but my budget was less than yours.
     
  5. |Chaz|

    |Chaz| Well-Known Member VIP

    Messages:
    6,125
    Likes Received:
    253
    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Location:
    Washington
    If you want 30-35 mpg, I would go with a D15b Vtec. Fun and peppy little motor and great gas mileage. Go with the Si transmission though.

    A gsr will be closer to 25-28 mpg in real world driving conditions unless you pussy foot it.
     
  6. PdxEG

    PdxEG New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Certainly an interesting option. I just very briefly looked into that and my concerns are too much weight up front (lots of fun roads in Portland, Or. I want to be able to turn) mpg, and cost. But definately something to look into more as i know virtually nothing about j swaps.

    I won't be driving past 4-5k 90% of the time so I want something with a little more torque, like maybe even a stock ls. What kind of mpg can I expect from the ls?? similar to in a stock integra?

    But thanks for the option, i hadn't thought of that before, and getting real mpg numbers is great. Thanks for your information.
     
  7. |Chaz|

    |Chaz| Well-Known Member VIP

    Messages:
    6,125
    Likes Received:
    253
    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Location:
    Washington
    You're looking at the wrong brand of cars if you'd like something with torque lol. Honda's don't really make much for torque...
     
  8. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    11,620
    Likes Received:
    302
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Location:
    Rochester Hills, MI
    Honestly I think you're going to be very hard pressed to meet ALL of your criteria (cost, power, and desired mpg).

    Like Calesta said, a GSR swap fitted with a decent header and cams can be made to meet your power goals, but it will likely blow your budget and not meet your MPG goal.

    An LS/VTEC or B20/VTEC can be made to meet your power goals (and the B20 can provide a bit of extra torque), but once again, you'll exceed your budget and not meet your MPG goals.

    The K-series engines are fantastic in my opinion, but pricier than anything else on your list, and once again will not meet your MPG goals.

    As for the B16, I honestly wouldn't recommend it for you. They've got even less torque than the 1.8 liter engines and you have to rev the piss out of them to get the power, so it's unlikely you'd meet your MPG goals. In order to get more torque and power you'd need to invest in a 1.8 or 2.0 block and cams and bolt-ons, so there goes your budget.

    In regards to your other questions, raising compression will result in power increases at the expense of MPG. It may also result in engines that are less comfortable to daily drive. Also keep in mind that higher compression means premium fuel will be required, and that includes some of these engines you've listed even in their stock configuration (B16, GS-R, etc.).

    As for emissions, you'll have to look up the specific requirements for your state as it varies from place to place. One thing you may not realize though, is that you don't have to use a Japanese market engine. A lot of these engine importing companies will have both JDM and US market used engines available.

    And as for whether to buy an already-swapped car, it's a mixed bag. If you build it yourself then you know for certain what's gone in to it and how it's been treated. If you buy an already swapped and modded car you could be buying something that's been beat on relentlessly.

    One final thought, concerning this:

    A J-series swap would certainly meet your power goals, but will definitely blow your budget and your MPG goals, so I wouldn't recommend it for you. With that said, I wouldn't worry too much about adding a heftier motor up front. If you plan to upgrade to after-market shocks and springs the difference should be negligible. Also keep in mind that we're talking about a front wheel drive platform here. A bit of extra weight over the front wheels isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    A good compromise to consider here would be an H22 swap. It's not a direct bolt-in to a Civic like the B-series is, but it's much simpler than the J and the wiring is much simpler than the K swaps. It's got 200 horses and 160 ft/lbs torque right out of the box. MPG probably isn't going to be what you want, but it won't be awful either. I think it could make for a fun daily driver Civic...
     
  9. PdxEG

    PdxEG New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    ^^^^ Awesome Post. If the figures im presenting are unreasonable its definately nice to know that so I can be more realistic. I have little real experience so getting real numbers is useful.

    Seems like the power goals are reasonably easy to meet, but the budget/mpg are holding this back. If mpg were 25-30 that would probably be okay too and as long as the car was reliable and lasted forever like civics should I wouldn't mind spending more.

    -I think GSR with basic bolt ons and a good tune is my top pick so far. Whats the best strategy for finding one usdm or jdm cheaply? Any other viable options other than the import sites?

    -Basic ls swap seems more economical (initial cost/mpg-regular fuel/longer tranny) but probably significantly less fun and might really regret it.

    Ls/vtec and b20 seem perfect minus the very mixed reliability and longevity.

    The H22 idea is definately something to think about too.

    Hey and thanks again for answering all the misc questions I had that went unanswered. Your post was incredibly useful.
     
  10. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

    Messages:
    28,465
    Likes Received:
    228
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    Dallas / Fort Worth, TX
    Some street tuning with a wideband and knock sensor (you can learn to do this yourself and possibly borrow/rent the tuning tools) can easily get you past 30mpg on a B series swap. I ran over 30mpg on the highway in a pretty aggressively built 2.0L+ bottom end with good tuning, and not in a lightweight car either (Civic sedan).

    Finding a GSR- check the junkyards, Craigslist, friends, tuner shops- sometimes you'll meet people that already have a certain kind of engine that you want but want to swap to something bigger- so you can take their old running swap off of them for not much cash.

    A B20 on its own without VTEC can be quite fun, and definitely get past your 150whp power goal with just bolt-ons (I/H/E) and cams. For around town fun, instant on torque at low rpm is what you want, and displacement will get you there. With the money you save not adding VTEC heads into your swap, you can get a nice set of cams that will open up the high-rpm breathing on your non-VTEC engine and make more power up top too, more than enough to surprise the VTEC guys in most cases.

    Bonus here is that parts for non-VTEC B blocks are generally cheaper- cams, ECUs etc- because all the Honda fanboys want to spend money on VTEC hardware.
     
  11. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    30,015
    Likes Received:
    3,945
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Location:
    CT
  12. PdxEG

    PdxEG New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Ok so if I have the money gsr seems like obvious choice, and its nice to know that 30 mpg isn't out of the realm of possibility.

    I didn't even think of a stock b20z. Ive read converting from obd1 to 2 presents an issue, but seems like a cool idea. Going the b20z routes seems similar to the ls b18b1 option. So far those are the top 3 options, as a h22a seems fun but more difficult and costly, but sick none the less. Damn lots of good ideas, i love this forum!
     
  13. dc4dude

    dc4dude Member

    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Location:
    chicago, il
    Just my two cents, i have a stock b18b1 in my 01 integra mated to a lsd ITR trans, with a lightweight flywheel, cheapo header, 2.5 inch exhaust, and its a decently fun car to drive. Its not fast by any means, but it put a smile on my face every time i drive it, and still average 28-30 mpg. (It is considerably lower when its nice out and i wind it up more often, as is with any car) but the biggest advantage of having the engine bone stock is the reliability since this is my only car... It used to be automatic, but i swapped on the manual trans for about 1400.00 dollars... Trans and conversion parts included in that price... The gear ratios of the itr trans really wakes up the stock B1.
     
  14. dc4dude

    dc4dude Member

    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Location:
    chicago, il
    I am building a high compression ls build to swap in once i buy a decent daily... More on that soon...
     
  15. PdxEG

    PdxEG New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Only problem I see with swapping trannies is that for $1,400 is that I could get close to buying a gsr, but yea even just getting a more aggresive trans is a good idea and in an eg itll be significantly quicker than an integra.
     
  16. dc4dude

    dc4dude Member

    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    17
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Location:
    chicago, il
    Well, to be fair, 700 of that was in parts... It was an auto to manual swap... So linkage, mounts, brackets, mount inserts, clutch, flywheel, slave cylinder, clutch master cylinder, pedals, pressure plate bolts (arp) flywheel bolts (arp) seals, (rear main, and axle seals) i got a deal on a recently installed and recently crashed jdm itr trans two states away that i couldn't pass up...
     
Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page