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which swap for best price and power

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by BrimX, Dec 31, 2004.

  1. BrimX

    BrimX Junior Member

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    hey guys,

    i definately just recently decided to do an engine swap for my 94 civic ex 4dr after seeing my friend with a 98 civic 4dr gsr swap and how fast it is.

    the thing is though... ive always died for a turbo but ive read that type r's arent made for boost.

    what do you guys recommend i do and what would be the least expensive to do?

    im thinkin a b series engine with turbo to give me at least 250 whp?
    but i want the most powerful engine possible that would work really nice with turbo.

    please let me know, and if someone is reading this and lives near miami, fl or ft. lauderdale, and has a swap simmilar to wat i want, please let me know so i can chek it out.

    thanks guys!
     
  2. friz

    friz Senior Member

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    I think what most of the guys around here are going to tell you is that you are better off piecing your swap together. A nice V-tec engine is not neccessarily the best for turbo stock. All of them are fairly high compression. Most of the guys building for turbo are using lower compression pistons to get around 9.5/1. If you are going turbo right away an LS swap may be the most economical. I'm sure you will get plenty of opinions on this. The most important thing is to make sure that the swap you decide to go with is the same OBD. For you that would be OBD1.
     
  3. BrimX

    BrimX Junior Member

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    sorry for the noob question, but wat does OBD mean? and whats an LSD tranny?
     
  4. friz

    friz Senior Member

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    On Board Diagnostics. What kind of electronics you have

    Limited Slip Differential. When you hit it you leave two black marks instead of one.
     
  5. BrimX

    BrimX Junior Member

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    thanks friz.

    "When you hit it you leave two black marks instead of one."

    are you talkin about screeches on the road? lol i dont get it
     
  6. BrimX

    BrimX Junior Member

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    also, whats the best b series engine to turbo, would it have a vtec? and whats the best b series engine to keep stock?

    if i get a b series vtec with no turbo, what can i do to it to make it faster besides intake and exhaust?
     
  7. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    A B series swap + turbo is always a LOT more expensive than most people think. If you want close to 250whp, you could turbo your EX's engine and just tune it really well. There are quite a few people who have made about 220-230whp with boost on the stock D16Z6, and they drive around on pump gas reliably every day.

    If you have tons of cash, I would recommend a turbo Type-R setup. It's not easy to tune, but you can make almost 400whp with proper tuning on stock internals and the right turbo setup. If you don't have loads of money to throw around, a non-VTEC B18 with a well sized turbo will get you past 300whp easily.

    The BEST B series blocks to turbo for the most power are always the VTEC ones. The heads just flow better stock, and you have two cam profiles to help give the engine more range in its power band. All stock compression levels are easy to boost on- you just have to not be a retard when you're tuning the car.

    So basically- just about any stock Honda engine combination plus a turbo in your Civic can get you to respectable power levels. 250whp on a stock block D16Z6 might be out of reach for your average builder/tuner, but it's not hard to do with the right equipment. Any B block plus boost will make 250whp even in the hands of an average tuner.

    Good luck. Make sure your pockets are deep.
     
  8. BrimX

    BrimX Junior Member

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    thanks man, few things though.....

    for one, your sayin i need loads of cash, how much do i need? lol.

    also, i thought type-r's arent really made to work good with turbos. and i thought non vtec turboed b engines are the best way to go.

    anyways.... i dont wanna touch my d16 cuz its already at 147,000+ miles thats another reason i want the swap.

    lets say i get a b18c type r engine... would it bolt right in and not require any other parts? could i turbo it right away?

    is there another b series engine that i can use for my swap that i can obtain near 250 hp's with just stock internals and maybe a good intake?

    alot of people recommend i piece my engine together, the only thing is i have no clue about wat parts are needed in an engine nor do i know how to put one together. alot of people tell me about wiring, ecu's, trannies, tuning, etc etc... and it just sounds like sooo much!

    is there any place or engine i can get that will bolt right in that i can just disconnect everything from my d16 and connect right back up to my b series?

    sorry for the avalanch of questions, im just tryin to learn as much as possible to get me started.

    thanks guys
     
  9. DelSlo

    DelSlo Senior Member

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    [it sounds to me like you just really wanna beat your buddy's car..

    swaps and turbos are expensive and no a type r will not bolt right into a civic, you need a mount kit, axles, shift linkage, computer, and if you are putting into a obd 1 car then like buddy said if you are going to go turbo, its best to go turbo with the same computer, im assuming you dont know a thing about the obd, so simply enough, 1990-1995 was all od 1 computers, and 96- 00 is all obd 2. a type R is obd 2, yours is obd 1, a conversion harness can be used for just a swap, but turbo its not as easy.

    id strongly suggest reading through as much stuff on this site before you go throwin madd noob questions at these guys. i was in the same boat as you, but you read and thats where you learn a whole bunch, get some basics behind ya and read about obd and the different motors that honda offers, its all on this site, thats why this site is so awesome, its got tons of info, more than i think you could ever read almost use what otehr ppl have wrote on here to your advantage, its a great resource.
    :)
     
  10. BrimX

    BrimX Junior Member

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    well im assuming when i get a complete swap, im changing the ecu to the one coming with the new engine swap, of which i would assume according to the knowlege ive gathered so far change from obd1 to whatever obd the new ecu is , in this case obd2 ?

    ive read that the b16a2 swap is the smoothest swap but im not sure if the power on that engine is enough for me. i think what i want is either a non vtec powerful turbo swap, or a powerful vtec type-r nonturbo swap.

    im doin as much reading as i can understand cuz alot of the terms being used are very alienated to me, lol. so just gimme some time to fall into this cuz im very interested in learnin everything i can. as a matter of fact, just to get a better idea of what is what under a hood, i was thinkin of takin a highres pic of under my hood and circling things that i dont know and putting numbers next to the parts and askin forum members to help me identify them, i think this would serve a good purpose for other n00bs as well.

    let me know what you think guys, cuz i wanna at least make up my mind on what i want before i start saving up.

    thanks
     
  11. friz

    friz Senior Member

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    Dont change OBD's Your car is OBD1 You swap needs to be OBD1. The B16A2 is OBD2. I think what you need is B16A3 this is OBD1. If you brouse the referece section you will find info about swaps and compatability.
     
  12. BrimX

    BrimX Junior Member

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    k, but why do u not recommend me changing obd's? isnt it just the ecu?
     
  13. friz

    friz Senior Member

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    Search through the posts on this site and you will find a multitude of problems when people try to do this. Just one problem is having to change your distributor to match the OBD of you computer. $200 minimum.
     
  14. PhyRe

    PhyRe Senior Member

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    if you just want to spank you boys gsr get an ls turbo 8psi and you good like someone said bs tunin is all it need. not recomended but it can be done.

    i am curently building my kit for a gsr and im lookin to spend about 1000-1200 maybe 1500 tops.
    thats- turbo, fmic, bov, injectors, chipped ecu, manifold, and piping

    for your first turbo set up ebay is you friend. and try homemadeturbo.com guys can help you with obd and chippin and look in the for sale section to see some prices of shit you will need
     
  15. BrimX

    BrimX Junior Member

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    ok, im gonna listen to friz on this cuz his swap is done and runnin smooth.

    alot of people are tellin me the smoothest swap is the friz's b16a2 siR 2 which is the civic si engine i believe right?

    how much horsepower does that engine put out?

    can i turbo it?

    how much would it cost for the complete swap into my 94 civic ex?

    is the vtec powerful?

    is it recommended?

    if i turbo it will it put me in the 200-300 hp range? if not, what can i do to put me there.

    p.s. im not tryin to beat my buddies gsr, it would be nice, but for right now i just wanna make my car a nice little sleeper, then ill go all out for it.

    thanks guys!
     
  16. 92civicb18b1

    92civicb18b1 The Trisexual

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    First,
    92-95 is obd1, 96-00 I beleive is obd2a, 00+ is obd2b, Before 92 it was obd0 (i might have the obd2a and obd1b a little off, like it might be 96-99)

    Second, crossing obd's isn't as easy as it sounds, I just put an obd0 in my 93 hatch, I needed a new distributor and a few other little parts. Obd0-1 is much easier and less of a hassle then obd2-1. There is a section all about this.

    There is a whole section for swappin b series into EG's, look for it, it tells you all the parts you need.

    A type-r engine is a very potent engine, it's a chore to tune but with enough money and time it's a monster. Its the best and most powerful engine that comes from the factory, I think it has around 197 hp. It will bolt in, you need a few other parts, like distributor and such but it really does just bolt in.

    GSR's are next up, they have between 170-180 hp. They are the most popular. They have more displacement than the b16, therefor more torque. They respond well to boost and can handle a decent amount in stock form, a little tuning and it will see numbers above 300hp. The swap itself is kinda expensive, I think most of the time around 2500+.

    B16's are next, have 160 hp but it's 1.6 so it has less torque. I personally would never buy this engine. A lot of people like this though. It also responds well to boost. Relatively cheap alsom like 2k or so I think

    LS (b18b1 or b18a1) 130-142 HP. My personal favorite. Put them in every one of the civics I've owned. Respond very well to boost, 250 isn't that hard of a task with this engine either. They're cheap and reliable and give a nice jump in stock form form the civic engine. I've done all of my swaps with this engine for under $1k.

    b20, non vtec 2.0 CRV motor. Not the ideal engine for boosting bcause of the thinner sleeves. People choose this motor for the added displacement, I would rather a resleeved LS. Essentially this is a good drop in and go motor, it has like 140 hp but more torque than any of the b series. Could be a good motor if built. A little more expensive than the LS.

    There are more choices liek the d-series, these are the most popular though.

    All-Motor
    This is the most expensive route to go and you probably will never get over 300 hp, it's possible but most likely you don't have enough money.

    Boost
    Most cost efficient way and most reliable way to make most honda engines faster. Even a small turbo will make a nice noticeable difference. VTEC engine will have always make more HP than a non vtec motor, someone else said this.

    LS's are a good choice to boost right after the swap, they have relatively low compression which means you can run more boost. Tuning is still needed and recommended even for a small turbo at a low psi.

    b16's can be boosted as well, still not my engine of choice but they can make nice numbers, probably more than the LS. Tuning is a little more difficult because of the added compression.

    GSR's are beasts when boosted. They make very nice numbers, tuning is also very important. Best VTEC engine to boost. It's a 1.8 and there's no replacement for displacement.
     
  17. 92civicb18b1

    92civicb18b1 The Trisexual

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    i got tired and am not editing or typing any more, there is plenty more info in the articles section and shit.
     
  18. BrimX

    BrimX Junior Member

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    wow.... thanks for your overview/opinion on the b series. it helped quite a bit.

    i would love the turbo but from what im seeing/reading it looks like the tuning is a real bitch. i wouldnt mind doin it but i just gotta learn how first.

    second, it looks like the b16 is what im leaning to so far, because for one its a vtec 170hp motor that bolts right in and "fits like a glove" . im guessing this engine can be made faster more easily.

    id like friz to review my opinion and give me his, cuz thats what he has. also.... how much am I lookin to spend on a turbo??

    according to ebay the garrett t3 turbos are around 2 grand. thats a total of 4 to 5 thousand dollars on my swap.

    one last thing,

    people are tellin me about b16's running me around 1 to 2 g's . friz, at HMO the b16 complete change over is 2400 plus shipping. isnt that a little steep for a b16?

    let me know what you guys think, cuz im starting to get really anxious.

    p.s. im gonna head over to the articles on b series cuz i need to gain a bit more knowledge :D
     
  19. samuraiBill

    samuraiBill Junior Member

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    the H22 is the only way bro :p
     
  20. BrimX

    BrimX Junior Member

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    no man, id spend so much money on the mounting and puttin that thing in is a bitch and a half.

    i think of h22's as big beastly goon's that are so big but fall so easily and have many problems. lol, just my two cents :)

    i wanna stick with a b series. im just lookin to see wats the best cost efficient engine to swap in to get the most power!

    p.s. ..... friz, you did the b16 siR 2 swap urself right? how did u place the engine in your hood? dont you need a crane of some sort? also... was it sort of like a disconnect from the d-series and reconnect to the b series type of install? because im looking to do it myself for 2 reasons: 1. to save money and for the fun of it, and 2. to learn and gain experience.
     
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