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Will the D16 Bolt to a Stock Civic Transmission?

Discussion in 'Civic and CRX - EW' started by Unforgiven, May 13, 2018.

  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven New Member

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    Sorry to bother you guys, but I've been searching the internet for a few days now and I can't verify this one, simple question: Will the '86-'89 Integra motor bolt-up to a stock Civic trans (1985)?

    Everyone swaps to the Acura transmission/knuckles instead of using the stock transmission. My Civic is 4WD, so I need to use the stock transmission. I want something that will bolt-in, including the intermediate shaft. I don't care about fuel or exhaust yet, not if the engine won't bolt in. I know the motor mounts are the same.

    Oh - and does the A/C compressor mount in the same location? No A/C is a deal-breaker too.

    Thanks for your time.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  2. dilbeckskate

    dilbeckskate infamous

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    No it will not work, the 86-89 USDM DOHC D16A1 has to use the 5 speed CG Transmission, the engine/trans combo will drop in and bolt up together but no not the motor to your 4x4 trans
     
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven New Member

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    Thank you.

    The bellhousing bolt patterns are different? They look so damn similar.
    D16bell.jpg
    EWbell.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven New Member

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    Hrmm... Let me rephrase the question:

    Hi everybody! I have an '85 Civic 4WD Wagon with a blown engine. The head gasket started to leak - a lot, but the stratified combustion chamber prevented me from identifying the problem right away as the car kept running like normal. I'd recently had a new clutch installed, plus all new brakes and hydraulics, struts, shocks, halfshafts, tires, and wheel bearings. Needless to say, I was discouraged and tapped-out by the time I identified the head gasket as the culprit. I parked the car and went back to driving the gas-guzzling truck, and by the time I got around to having the head gasket changed the motor had locked-up.

    So, what are my options aside from finding an stock, iron-block replacement engine? I'd love to do the D16 and give the car some hotrod flare, but I need something that will retain the original transmission so the speedometer will keep working and to prevent all of my repairs being done in vain - all of the new parts have less than 5,000 miles on them.

    I'm pretty sure an EW EFI head will fit, but they are hard to find and kinda boring seeing as how I have to pull the entire drivetrain anyway. Doing away with the stock carburetor and emissions boxes is a must as replacement parts don't exist and the original stuff is temperamental, especially with so much age, making the car a burden to maintain. I am ok with a side-draft setup, but prefer EFI with Hondata or Megasquirt as I have experience with both. I don't, however, wish to screw around with making some bastard, five or six-injector abortion of a manifold to accommodate the CVCC...ugh, can you imagine tuning the fuel tables.

    I've been researching my options for days, but Honda's stellar engineering makes it almost impossible to find all of the information I need in one or two places. I'd just like some simple suggestions from the Guru's on the board so I can weigh my options. I don't want to give-up and sell the car, but I don't have the time or the energy to earn an internet Ph.D in Honda's manufacturing changes and part compatibility. Thanks in advance!

    -Unforgiven
     
  5. dilbeckskate

    dilbeckskate infamous

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    the housing is the same but the crank output shaft size is different as are mounting locations, and if you want to keep your 4x4 youre pretty much stuck using a old worn out d15 to throw in it , if want to swap motor and trans and ditch the 4wd you can put a dohc zc/d16a1 swap in it , that car isnt worth the effort to converting to fuel injection either soo also consider that esp if you want to use factory electronics the entire fuel system will have to be changed and wiring harness for dash/engine , sorry if this is discouraging but the parts cars and donor vehicles just arent there anymore esp if emissions is required put another motor in it and keep rolling
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven New Member

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    Just to make sure I'm interpreting this correctly: you're saying that the 4WD flywheel (and pressure plate) won't bolt to the D16 motor, correct? Going further, since the D16 flywheel is almost an inch larger in diameter, neither it nor the Integra pressure plate will fit into the 4WD bellhousing, correct? ...not to mention the starter wouldn't engage and the cable clutch probably wouldn't have enough throw, if the stock throwout bearing would even mesh with the D16 pressure plate, yada, yada.

    Thanks again.
     
  7. dilbeckskate

    dilbeckskate infamous

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    HOLY SHIET MAN ! the crank output , flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch AND STARTER are DIFFERENT IT DOES NOT WORK - end of discussion lol its still a sweet oldschool honda even if carb'd and d15
     
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven New Member

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    Sorry; didn't intend to irritate your sensibilities. If it would make you feel better I can send you a tip via PayPal for your effort. I apologize if my posts come off as short or disrespectful, but I am emotionally drained. I have no shop space anymore because the building I was leasing space in got blown over by high winds two months ago and I lost twelve cars, including a '71 Riviera, a '72 240Z, and an '84 CRX 1.3L. This wagon and an MX3 are the only things that didn't get scrapped or sold for parts. I don't have a garage at my residence, so tearing apart the car and experimenting with a bunch of different parts isn't going to work. I'm on the verge of getting out of car stuff all together as such a huge loss has put me in a fog, and if I can't do something fun and satisfying with this wagon then I'm gonna let it all go. Fuck it.

    Anyway -

    The reason I was being so specific is that custom flywheels are easy to order and not that expensive - if the only thing I need is a Civic flywheel with an Integra bolt pattern punched in it then I could have one in less than a week. Is that all I would need?

    I'm not stuck on the D16, I just want the most modern motor I can get. What other motors have the same bellhousing bolt pattern?
     
  9. dilbeckskate

    dilbeckskate infamous

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    lol no no no youre fine dont sweat that stuff man its ok, and yea that sounds shitty its just one of those things on the civic though that only certain year stuff works with certain stuff , you 110% can ditch the 4wd and put a dohc zc/d16a1 swap in it though, but then gets into the same thing of the chassis being for carbs
     
  10. SlushboxTeggy

    SlushboxTeggy It's only stupid if it doesn't work VIP

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    Does this thing have to pass emissions? If so, what state? I'd be interested in seeing a B20 shoehorned in one of these things, haha. Hi fire, meet fuel...
     
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  11. dilbeckskate

    dilbeckskate infamous

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    hes wanting to keep his dseries 4wd , its a carb'd d15 3rd gen civic
     
  12. SlushboxTeggy

    SlushboxTeggy It's only stupid if it doesn't work VIP

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    B20s bolt up to a 4WD transmission. Just saying. I'm just being a heel, but it would be a fun swap all said and done.
     
  13. dilbeckskate

    dilbeckskate infamous

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    wrong 4wd transmission buddy , youre thinking of a 88+ not a 84-87 , try again
     
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven New Member

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    What's shitty is the property owner didn't go to the site after he heard the building fell, instead he went to his attorney and filed bankruptcy. I had to take all of my cars off of the property myself after they were extracted - sucks to watch the claw smash your shit and toss it onto a pile. The owner's insurance company is arguing that he couldn't offer the coverage he did that's on my lease, which covered fire and natural disaster (not vandalism and break-ins) - and my insurance company won't get involved because I was leaning on the coverage the leased space provided. I'm not going to get reimbursed for any cars, parts, or tools lost.

    --

    I'm game for anything where I can make the car look like it's a running, driving car to passers by (Homeowner's Association). No dangling motors or wrestling with transmissions for days at a time, no car on blocks for the neighbors to bitch about. I want something that I can bolt-in with a few custom parts, then I will fiddle with fuel, exhaust, and the other piddley stuff - stuff where I can set down the jack and close the hood and the car looks like it's sitting there ready to be driven.

    Custom header, done it before; fabricated A/C and fuel lines, no problem; one-off wiring harness for the engine and Megasquirt, ho-hum.

    Custom motor mounts are pushing it. Swapping in a CR-V motor and transmission is straight-out of the question - I couldn't get away with it at the house, and bastardising CV shafts that will work is no fun at all.

    The D16 from an Integra sounds great if a custom flywheel will allow me to bolt it to the stock transmission, use the stock mounts, and retain the intermediate shaft - I could have it out and reset in a day, and then covertly do all the other mods. Will this plot work? Are there any alternatives?
     
  15. dilbeckskate

    dilbeckskate infamous

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    Forget abt the d16 with custom flywheel it wont work , companies do make swap mount kits for d/b to use 88+ motors and transmissions in them but again its eliminating your 4wd, thats the alternative sadly, and then you still have to have a donor car for literally the whole engine/dash harness and electronics and redo the entire fuel system
     
  16. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven New Member

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    Thanks for the input and expertise.

    --

    1985 Civic 4WD Wagovan for sale. Lots of good parts, clean title - some rust and one broken window; located in Nebraska. $700
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  17. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    You must retain 4WD? If not....lots of JDM Dseries motor/trans combos with low mileage. Your chassis is one I know little about but if you're willing to go FWD....I know there's multiple options. Obstacles should be mostly wiring. And I think it's worth it to convert to multi-point fuel injection.....but wiring. Stay carb'd and less options but easier to change over.

    Edit: Paypal? I like money jk
     
  18. SlushboxTeggy

    SlushboxTeggy It's only stupid if it doesn't work VIP

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    I'm thinking of the CRV trans that its bolted to from the factory. I was just stirring the pot. I realize basically swapping a CRV powertrain and drivetrain would be super custom. Would just be cool to see it done.
     
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  19. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven New Member

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    I did consider hanging a CR-V motor and trans up front. However, such a swap is so involved. Re-engineering small subsystems is easy and doesn't take too much time and effort, but redoing the entire front suspension doesn't appeal to me. Further, my wife has a '99 CR-V and the RealTime 4X4 system is convenient but not confidence inspiring. This wagovan with the push-button 4WD and solid rear axle goes through the snow like it has tracks. Going to a newer system might be a downgrade or even incompatible as the CR-V fluid coupler is in the rear diff.

    But this Civic isn't perfect, and I don't think it's worth much more than a bolt-in job. I would just get a used motor, but the emissions boxes under the hood are pesky and take the fun out of DDing the car when they act up. My mechanic tapped-out after rebuilding the carburetor, so I got an FSM and 4WD supplement and spent weeks testing and tweaking while driving the car every day to work the bugs out and to get it to run right. Some of the components tested bad by factory procedure, some of them I bypassed, some are hotwired to work. I need to ditch the CVCC bs and go with simple EFI to tolerate the car, and I would need to have fun driving it to be compelled to fix the rust and have it painted, etc. Replacing the broken window is already going to cost $340.

    I've considered swapping an EW (D15, right?) EFI head onto a used shortblock, but I don't know what kind of power I could get out of it N/A - I'm afraid it would be expensive and disappointing. I mean, I'm all ears if someone can talk me into doing something fun and easy that uses the stock transaxle or somehow retains the 4WD and speedometer.
     
  20. dilbeckskate

    dilbeckskate infamous

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    what part of you arent going to find a donor car for for pre obd0 mpfi is hard to understand lol you can put a more modern non vtec head on it though and run it on bike carbs pretty easy
     
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