1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

With all the dumb aftermarket support Honda's have

Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by hosmer, Oct 8, 2005.

  1. hosmer

    hosmer I made the millionth post VIP

    Messages:
    3,162
    Likes Received:
    82
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Location:
    B R I D G E W A T E R
    So I popped my timing belt in the hatch last night..whatever, I work at a junkyard and I already threw another D15 in the car (my "good" motor won't be ready til spring) and it got me thinking...


    Why the hell hasn't anyone developed a gear drive for Honda's?
    I saw an Accord a few years ago that someone had custom built one for, but as far as I can find, no one actually makes any kits.

    I mean whoever did it would make millions just based on the fact that they wine like a supercharger...
     
  2. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    21,969
    Likes Received:
    146
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    The flex losses in the metals would make them wear in in such a way, that the high-reving motor that Honda designed wouldn't be precise enough to run at those high rpms.

    I'm sure that there have been developments in metallurgy now that will allow such a device, but the costs are still prohibitive for OEM use.

    I think it's high time for a hydraulic "belt" drive cartridge - That not only covers cams, but accessory drives as well.
     
  3. driverunknown

    driverunknown Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,474
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    s2k f20 revs to 9k all day long and has a chain drive...are we talking about the same thing?
     
  4. hcivic.com

    hcivic.com Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,571
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Location:
    Calgary Alberta canada
    ya bolt one up easy to do it would cost less than 250 bucks. just some simple math, go to the spped shop and away you go
     
  5. ScrapinSi

    ScrapinSi Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,292
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    chain drive & gear drive are 2 different things...

    Chain drive is like a belt drive... it has tension... but has give as well...

    On v8's, you can replace the timing chain set with a gear drive.. Thus giving a more direct drive, less parasitic loss, and a whine that makes it sound kinda like its supercharged... :)

    Timing Chain:
    [​IMG]

    Gear Drive:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. hcivic.com

    hcivic.com Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,571
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Location:
    Calgary Alberta canada
    okay and the point being you can find 100's of diffrent gears from diffrent sets and make it work the only hard part would be the mounting brakets and even those could be tackled
     
  7. TurboMirage

    TurboMirage YEEAAAHHH VIP

    Messages:
    24,579
    Likes Received:
    696
    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Location:
    Central, MA
    thats kinda cool....
     
  8. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    21,969
    Likes Received:
    146
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    F20s are timing chained ?! Holy shit.

    Well, I'll tell ya what Hosmer: Get to your CAD station and make a set for the B series.

    Do that = be a millionaire.
     
  9. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    9,623
    Likes Received:
    345
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Location:
    MD
    whats the advantage of a chain over a belt?
     
  10. Battle Pope

    Battle Pope New Member

    Messages:
    10,279
    Likes Received:
    60
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Location:
    Southern Oregon Coast
    durability.

    chains last longer than belts (obviously).

    They also make more noise and aren't as precise in high-stress environments. However, since the F20c and F22c are chain-timed, honda has obviously eliminated that problem.
     
  11. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    21,969
    Likes Received:
    146
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Now a days, nothing. But back when you guys were born (And I started working on cars (ugh)) the frictional losses in tight springs and cams would cause a belt to skip a tooth. Today however, that is solved and belts are reliable as hell now. It's followed the same progression as belt drives on motorcycles. I remember in 1987 the Harley softtail had belt drive again, which was odd for a bike with that power. But it held up all the time.

    Timing chains were simply a more reliable, if not sophisticated, way to move the top end.

    Timing gears were the race favorite since the 50s flat heads (Talk about a sinister looking motor). Timing gears have been commonplace for common racing Vs, but Hosmer has noticed that they aren't for our motors.

    Honestly, I think it must have been tried, and then abandoned. IF it worked then you would see the honda 18,000 rpm F1 motors running it.
     
  12. hosmer

    hosmer I made the millionth post VIP

    Messages:
    3,162
    Likes Received:
    82
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Location:
    B R I D G E W A T E R
    Obviously with overhead cams, theres a bit more room between the cams and the crank, but I still think it could be done and work properly.



    I need a machine shop
     
  13. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    Messages:
    49,693
    Likes Received:
    54
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Location:
    Retirement Home
    you'd have to re-design a water pump while you're at it
    you'd have to figure out a way to not bend the cam with too much tension, but enough so it doesn't slip.... and it would be pushing from the bottom isntead of pulling from the top. the cam stays aren't designed to be pushed up...
    other than just building the gear sets... there's a lot of little things that are stupid importand to R&D
     
  14. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

    Messages:
    21,057
    Likes Received:
    1,180
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Location:
    NY
    :werd:

    you would need like 8 gears between crank and cams...

    gear drive on imports = geigh...

    it would be ricers wanting the supercharger sound...
    kinda like the turbo sound exhaust shit...
     
  15. hosmer

    hosmer I made the millionth post VIP

    Messages:
    3,162
    Likes Received:
    82
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Location:
    B R I D G E W A T E R
    it would be me, not wanting to break another timing belt




    ever popped one on a GSR motor......not a great feeling
     
  16. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

    Messages:
    21,057
    Likes Received:
    1,180
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Location:
    NY
    if you;re that worried then change it every 40K

    timing belt should do an easy 80K

    i would think they would have a timing chain before they made gears...
     
  17. hosmer

    hosmer I made the millionth post VIP

    Messages:
    3,162
    Likes Received:
    82
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Location:
    B R I D G E W A T E R
    I change my belt and water pump every spring...




    I've still had 2 break on me
     
  18. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

    Messages:
    21,057
    Likes Received:
    1,180
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Location:
    NY
    ouch, what kind of belt are you using?
     
  19. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    21,969
    Likes Received:
    146
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    My step mother popped her belt on the 4G63. That was an ugly, ugly sound.

    I've never actually snapped a timing belt / chain. I have slipped teeth more times than once, but never a complete break.

    And my bolt came out of my water pump housing during an autocross, shot up through the belt and into the timing cover - I put another 30k on the timing belt with a gash in the middle of it.
     
  20. hosmer

    hosmer I made the millionth post VIP

    Messages:
    3,162
    Likes Received:
    82
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Location:
    B R I D G E W A T E R
    This one was just some aftermarket belt...I didn't change it when I bought the car (2 months ago) because its still just the crappy D15 and I was hopeing it'd just make it through the winter..


    but I had one on my GSR motor in my old CRX and that was a genuine Honda belt I bought at the dealer...it was only 6 months old




    that was a sad, sad day for me...
     
Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page