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Won't Start - Searched - Need Help.

Discussion in 'Civic and CRX - EF' started by Speed Box, Oct 28, 2007.

  1. Speed Box

    Speed Box New Member

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    Ok, my car won't start. It just cranks and thats it. I stopped at a stop sigh and it just just died and won't start. Timing belt is on and tight. Spark is there and fuel is reaching fuel rail. Injectors are spraying gas and were cleaned. No codes. I have compression 120-90-90-130

    Parts I have replaced so far.

    Distributor (set proper 2 different times to be sure, TDC etc.)
    Spark Plugs (gapped at .44)
    Main relay (under dash, above hood pull lever)
    Battery
    ECU ( pm6)
    Fuel Filter
    Ignition Switch

    Any suggestions? Opinions?
     
  2. dacheat

    dacheat ..is grounded.

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    no idea... :shrug:
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2007
  3. roninallout79

    roninallout79 Plan B

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    GER friggin MANY
    Year make and model, motor?
     
  4. norcalgsr

    norcalgsr Honda Master Technician

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    Your compression numbers look like you have a head gasket going bad between #2 and #3 cylinders.. how long did you crank the engine over each time when checking the compression? There is definitely a problem with those compression readings.. they're low all around but that is a huge drop on #2, 3.
     
  5. Speed Box

    Speed Box New Member

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    My car is 1989 Honda Civic Si with a stock d16a6 motor. No mods to the motor internally or externally.

    Ignition module is inside the distributor, same with the coil from what I understand.

    Head gasket was changed like 4-5 months ago and changed with d16y8 gasket lube all proper and bolts torqued to the right spec.

    Could it be that my piston rings are shot ? Car was burning alot of oil. Also when I swaped distributor there was oil there where marks align.
     
  6. Speed Box

    Speed Box New Member

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    I cranked the engine over 5 times to check compression. Then my battery was low and i cranked 10 times
     
  7. norcalgsr

    norcalgsr Honda Master Technician

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    Well it looks like the rings are definitely worn on all 4 cyls.. but when you have two cylinders next to each other that are 25% lower than the others chances are the head gasket is either blown/cracked/leaking or something of that nature. Or the head could be warped..
     
  8. Speed Box

    Speed Box New Member

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    So its internal problem in the engine. Right?

    When I take out spark plug wires and try to start the car, its doing the same cranking noise as when the wires are in the engine.
     
  9. norcalgsr

    norcalgsr Honda Master Technician

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    I don't know if that's the reason your engine won't start, but yes it definitely has some internal problems probably in line with something I mentioned in the previous post. Did you overheat the engine at all?
     
  10. Speed Box

    Speed Box New Member

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    Also would a head gasket prevent the car from starting?
     
  11. norcalgsr

    norcalgsr Honda Master Technician

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    Yeah it would if it was damaged enough.. with as low as the compression is on your middle cylinders that could be why it's not starting. Either way you definitely need to address that issue before putting more money into other parts.
     
  12. Speed Box

    Speed Box New Member

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    No overheat. Ok here is how everything happened... (underlined main parts if anyone does not want to read the whole story)

    We're driving with my friends last weekend and I notice car running crappy, detonation or something, everytime I accelerate. We pull in to this drive way and there the car kinda stopped and kept on going like a surge or something. My friend told me it was a tranny slip (it was NOT a tranny slip, and this dude supposedly had B20 DA) anyway we park and leave the car for a few minutes, then car starts, we drive 1 block and engine turns off. We left the car at the park tried to jumpstart then went to a lame party more like a gettogether. I towed car home late at night.
     
  13. Speed Box

    Speed Box New Member

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    This one dude had the same problem as me on hondaswap and he bought new spark plug wires and the car started, then died. Although I have spark from dizzy to wires and wires to plugs.

    But I have a bit of oil on them and they smell like gas.
     
  14. norcalgsr

    norcalgsr Honda Master Technician

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    You might want to try doing another compression test just to be absolutely sure those numbers are right. But if #2 and #3 cylinders are 25% or more down from the rest (like they are in your first post) you're going to have to pull the head and inspect everything to see why the compression is so low (cracked head, blown head gasket, warped head, stuff like that). Check your coolant level to see if it is full, or if it looks like it's mixed with oil. Also check the engine oil and see if it's a milky color and mixed with coolant. Those are also ways to determine if your head or gasket has failed.
     
  15. Speed Box

    Speed Box New Member

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    oil is ok and coolant is ok also. I just walked 5 miles and back to pep boys and got some spark plug wires if those don't work then its definately something internal, because I have 230,000 miles on the car.

    I'm thinking that piston rings are just shot to hell and that my compression is low on those cyl. because of it. That would also explain why my car burned alot of oil.

    My plan #2 if the wires don't start the car, is to replace pistons and rings and bearings on rods and try to start the car.

    Im going to pull the head and drop the oil pan. because pulling the motor out is alot of work and i don't really want to do that right now.( no engine hoist handy)

    when I was replacing rod bearings I figured that its possible to pull the pistons without pulling the motor out. from the top because piston rings are in the way to drop the pistons from the bottom, right?

    Thanks for everyone's help for real. I was going to give up on honda's but every car I have owned was a honda/acura, 4 of them. and this bitch will start period.

    honda "power of dreams" yeah power of dreams to get this honda started. so far all I had was problems. broken cyl. bolts, spun bearings etc.

    honda's are far from reliable, not to get off the subject.
     
  16. Speed Box

    Speed Box New Member

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  17. Speed Box

    Speed Box New Member

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    until I tear the motor apart I ran out of things to fix. even honda dealer don't know , mechanic thinks that it timing , my friends don't know either.

    i just want to know what happens to the car when the motor dies?
     
  18. norcalgsr

    norcalgsr Honda Master Technician

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    The thing with the compression is that when two adjacent cylinders are equally low on compression, like yours are, it's almost always a head or head gasket problem. I would agree that your piston rings are also probably worn and should definitely be replaced, but make sure you have the head inspected and pressure tested to make sure it's not cracked or warped before you put it back on the engine.

    As long as your cylinder walls are ok and don't need to be bored you should be able to change everything with the engine in the car. You can't drop the pistons out of the bottom while the motor is still in the car because the crank will be in the way, but if you drop the oil pan like you said you can replace the rod bearings and piston rings with the block in the car.

    You can make sure everything is timed pretty easily if you want to check that too before pulling apart the engine (although it looks like you're going to have to anyway). Just set the crank to 0 degrees at TDC, and remove the upper timing cover and make sure your cam is also at TDC. If those are both where they should be make sure your distributor isn't 180 degrees off (some of them can go in both ways and some are keyed to only go in 1 way). If those are all in the correct position then it's not the timing causing your problem.
     
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  19. Speed Box

    Speed Box New Member

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    Yeah my distributor is keyed to go in one way.

    I seriously have problems. Because I stripped my tensioner bolt all the way around. Now I have to file it and then use a smaller wrench to get it out.

    So, any special tricks I need to know when installing pistons?
     
  20. Speed Box

    Speed Box New Member

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    Norcalgsr your're right. First I drained coolant and noticed ALOT of oil in it(gasket) and not that much coolant. Then I pulled the head and there was mad coolant flowing out of everywhere. The reason for my car not starting (I think) is piston was raising coolant and taking out the spark. Also noticed one of my valves was hit by a piston there is a small chunk thats out. I used d16y8 gasket and it seems to be in good shape.
     
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