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Your iProduct purchase funds....

Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by Briansol, Mar 30, 2012.

  1. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    BBC News - Apple hit by China Foxconn factory report

    While i'm sure there's many comapnies in similar positions, Apples has just reported something like 589 billion in profits last year. Of which they offered a 1% dividend on. So, theres still 480 -odd billion in proft lying around....
    maybe it's million, i forget.

    either way,

    Surely, they can afford to pay a little bit better, no?

    If you are an apple consumer, does this make you feel bad? Knowing you paid $700 for an iPad that cost $.50 to make and likely hurt some poor Chinaman in the process?
     
  2. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    I don't know if this relates but there was some huge scandal about a "reporter" that was reporting on all the horrible conditions in the china factories and all the abuses of the workers, but in reality he never even went to the factories as he had claimed and most of the shit he reported on was either completely fictional, or exaggerated to paint a worse picture than actually exists.

    and the very idea of capitalism is to pay the cheapest wages to make the most profit.
    your notion of paying a little more, is basically the same as saying you made so much money why don't you spread it around a little more instead of keeping it all for yourself
    B = socialist

    side note, playing devils advocate here
    fuck apple, i don't buy their overpriced shit

    here's an even better idea, maybe they should make their shitty products here instead of selling the soul of america to china at wholesale pricing
    but then they have to deal with unions, minimum wage requirements, tighter labor standards, lazy fucking workers, and more EPA red tape than you can shake a dick at, and every worker would think they should be paid more for doing a half ass job, which reduces productivity, and ultimately destroys the company

    catch 22?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012
  3. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    I'm the furthest thing from a socilist. But, if I was in charge, it would NOT be profitable to export jobs to china, or anywhere else for that matter. It would make the ipad cost 1500 bucks from VAT additions for items made by us comapnies by off-shore labor.
    Note, that the VAT would not apply to companies athat are NOT us-based, such as BMW. And loophole of those like honda that have US factories-- would need to be addressed, but this of course is off topic :)

    Ultimately, they do not need to source the cheapest labor, as they can afford to use american workers, and still turn a profit.
    article says 120k people work there, and split with dell, microsoft, and hp. so, call it 30k workers.

    if an average factory worker in the us makes 40k, thats 1.2 billion in wages a year for those 30,000 workers.

    their profit is reduced by about 1%.
    30,000 US people have jobs. which takes that unemployment burden off the governemnt, they start spending more, which trickes down to the stores, and etc getting more customers or their debts collected because they can pay them again now, and the snowball effect continues.

    Apple could signle-handedly start the rebound of our country. Talk about power.

    But, they won't do it. And it's not to pay stock holders either, because mind you, up until this year, they hadn't paid out a dividend in almost 12 years.

    Plus, they will have the american made product associated with it, which does go a long way in some areas.
     
  4. BigJ

    BigJ I'm just about that action Boss. VIP

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    Corporate Ethics. Great debate over moral obligation and such comes into play here regarding this.
     
  5. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    Let me see, I think I had....nope....oh wait, maybe here....


    eh, nope....



    damn, I coulda sworn that I had one somewhere....






    eh, nope, maybe not.




    I looked, but I can't find a single 'fuck' anywhere. Looks like I won't be giving a fuck today.

    Oh well :shrug:



    ...and here we have the exact reason WHY they're able to be successful.
     
  6. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    Capitalism at its best. Things like this pisses my dad off. He remembers when this country was strong and self sufficient. We make hardly anything anymore. But it is not just these owners trying to turn a bigger profit. Unions play their part in this whole cluster f@ck. (I am part of a union)
     
  7. DarkHand

    DarkHand Senior Member VIP

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    Wouldn't that have the opposite effect of making all the companies relocate offshore and import goods to avoid the VAT?
     
  8. FLounder

    FLounder power hungry VIP

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  9. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    yeah, that's another part of the off-topic loophole rant. heh
     
  10. totalburnout

    totalburnout Well-Known Member VIP

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    They're Apple's supplier rather than being Apple's employee.

    Significantly different...

    With that said, the burden still falls on Apple to influence who their partners are and they kind of environments they promote, simply because Apple actually has that ability to influence (unlike other manufacturers).

    I'm all for capitalism but do believe that companies have a responsibility to the greater society/world.

    I didn't read this particular report but the issue has been going on for over two years. What initially turned people onto the poor conditions was the high rate of suicide amongst Foxconn workers. They since dialed back the hours and up'd the pay, but apparently they're still behind the curve of the western world.
     
  11. DarkHand

    DarkHand Senior Member VIP

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  12. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    yea... so that will definitely fix the problem then
    lol
     
  13. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    i'm pretty sure i signed prom promise to get a free pen, and i'm also pretty sure i drank that night. lol
     
  14. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    People know that just about 99.99% of everything is made in China.
    People know that Chinese factories are some of the most miserable environments in the world.
    People know that Chinese laws allows and encourages the employment of chinese children.
    People know that Apple sells the most expensive product in the field - by far.
    People know that Apple products are soul-sucking, life raping devices that have somehow made it cool and respectable to ensure that they work with nothing but other Apple devices and products.
    People have no problem paying $2 for a song that's been free for 30 years.
    People know that if the chinese weren't happy about this arrangement, they would do something about it.
    And finally, people know that if they aren't happy about the arrangment, they would do something about it.

    But they don't.

    Because people - above all else - are completely fucking retarded. And the reason that I have a 50 human cost to my lifestyle (What do they call that, the global plantation or some shit) is because my shit is 50 times more important and rewarding than the columbian slogs that mill my coffee beans under the crack of the whip while being raped by a gorilla employed by a cocaine cartel so that I can have my Keurig in the morning.

    And statistically, what I'm saying isn't even sarcastic.

    Finally, in pure capitalism, if one did not like the way that Apple produced a product, then that one would go out and do it better without bitching that "Something must be done, dammit". They would do. This is how and why Ransom Olds left Ford and started REO, and finally Oldsmobile. Because back then you could bitch all you want to your barber, a tire swing, or a creek - and you'd be nothing more than a barking moon bat. Now we can bitch at our keyboards and yell at our screens - and it'll at least listen.

    Enjoy your Korean car.
     
  15. morphmotorsports

    morphmotorsports New Member

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    Indeed. Until the consumer begins to reject such practices, will it stop.
     
  16. hosmer

    hosmer I made the millionth post VIP

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    "chinamen is not the preferred nomenclature dude"
     
  17. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    Liked because of the rather recent textual lashing I received for mentioning something about Japanese people.
     
  18. UNDR8D

    UNDR8D ...has a job!

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    You think 30,000 jobs would turn our economy around? Get fucking real.
     
  19. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    Incorrect. Ransom E. Olds founded Oldsmobile (which was then called Olds Motor Works) in 1897, left Oldsmobile around 1904, then decided he still wanted to make cars and started REO - which was initially supposed to be called the R. E. Olds Motor Car Company, however his previous company threatened legal action over the similarities of the names.
     
  20. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    I've read about the suicides and such in asia (based on work environments) but didn't tons of employees contest that they are providing a lot more than they would have? I was told they actually like their job. :shrug: But I've only carried a handful of conversations about the topic. And I'm sure there are threads/pictures/testimonies to claim otherwise.

    We (as Americans) feel entitled to earn upper middle class wages for a job that never received such a stature before (brings to mind my dad being a retired construction worker). We are our own enemy when it comes to our plight (in terms of debt, manufacturing, consumerism, all around warped perceptions of financial realities, etc.)
     
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