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confusatron · 09-08-2005, 01:54 AM

I need some opinions from people who have done upgrades. I want to know if say like

1. a Tein SS coilover type system is worth the money, and what exactly it will improve about my ride/handling.

2. Tie bars/tower bars front and rear: do they really improve handling that much? If so, are they worth the investment?

3. Front and Rear sway bars. Worth the money?

By "worth it " I mean I am looking to make my EG hatch corner and handle better, but with a little less bumpy overall ride than a stock EG hatch, if that is at all possible.

Thanks

Calesta · 09-08-2005, 02:16 AM

Yes, it's all worth it.... and they will all improve ride and handling in just about every aspect- but it all depends on what YOU call an "improvement". The better way to phrase a question would be to lay out what your goal/target for the car is in terms of handling, and what your budget is for suspension modification.

confusatron · 09-08-2005, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calesta@Sep 8 2005, 01:16 AM
Yes, it's all worth it.... and they will all improve ride and handling in just about every aspect- but it all depends on what YOU call an "improvement". The better way to phrase a question would be to lay out what your goal/target for the car is in terms of handling, and what your budget is for suspension modification.

Quoted post

id like a smoother, less clunky ride, with firm handling and good cornering, especially in the rear

Calesta · 09-08-2005, 02:27 AM

Ok- how much cash do you have to spend? I dropped probably around $5k on all my suspension goodies... and it feels really good to me.

confusatron · 09-09-2005, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calesta@Sep 8 2005, 01:27 AM
Ok- how much cash do you have to spend? I dropped probably around $5k on all my suspension goodies... and it feels really good to me.

Quoted post

Well, I'd like to do it in stages, no more than $500 to $1000 at a time, and the $1000 only for the coilover system (i.e. the Tein SS)

Which would be the most bang for the buck, improvement wise? The car currently has no sway bars, and those are relatively cheap depending on which way you go. What about those?

reikoshea · 09-09-2005, 08:39 AM

Well, i know that putting sway bars on has made a difference, but i think that the suspension (KYB shocks w/ Eibach pros) made a bigger difference. It is nice not to feel the chasis roll anymore. The prelude didnt have a lot (like the hatches do) but itd be a tough call in your cars. With the coilovers, however, you would be able to fully adjust your suspension (if you go with the Tein COs), while you would *just* get a more rigid chasis with the other adjustments

hybrid89 · 09-09-2005, 08:42 AM

start with, springs/coilovers and struts first, se where you are at and waht you are lacking after that. then work your way through the tie/strut bars as needed!

vtecsir1 · 09-09-2005, 11:16 AM

biggest difference i have felt with my hatch was the addition of the 23mm itr rear sway bar.

Calesta · 09-09-2005, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by confusatron@Sep 8 2005, 11:46 PM
Well, I'd like to do it in stages, no more than $500 to $1000 at a time, and the $1000 only for the coilover system (i.e. the Tein SS)

Which would be the most bang for the buck, improvement wise? The car currently has no sway bars, and those are relatively cheap depending on which way you go. What about those?

Quoted post

They really all improve the car in different ways, so I can't really tell you the best "bang for the buck" upgrade is. If your current shocks/springs are no good though, you should definitely get the coilovers first. Everything else you do later should be planned to work with your shock/spring setup, so choose wisely. Correct spring rates with coilovers are a good way to start.

You should get all your braces as soon as you can too. Stiffer shocks/springs will just beat the hell out of your chassis if it's not stiff enough to handle the stiffer equipment. You don't have to buy anything super expensive, but make sure to get the best braces you can afford that constrain as many degrees of motion as possible- no joints or as few as possible is the best way to go. Neuspeed is a really good value for upper front strut braces, and you can go with Carbing if you want to shell out some serious cash. Run a front lower 4 point chassis brace if you can, then something in the trunk for the upper rear if you have space for it. I would hold off on the rear lower brace until you pick out your sway bar setup- most good aftermarket rear sways have a built-in brace option that prevents rear subframe tearout... Suspension Techniques and Comptech are the only ones that I would recommend here if you don't go with the ITR rear bar.

Once you have the chassis as stiff as possible, look to the sway bars. Match your bar sizes to how you have your spring rates set up, then choose what you want and go for it.

confusatron · 09-10-2005, 02:46 AM

Great info, thanks a lot man.

Can you recommend a coilover system (I'm partial to Tein, but really have no idea who makes the best coilover system for the money), and sites to buy suspension parts from?

Calesta · 09-10-2005, 12:11 PM

You're welcome.

Omnipower is good for the money, and I honestly think that Tein is one of the better coilover values out there too. As for sites, I would just hunt around and check to see what sites have a good reputation, then buy from them. I get almost all my parts through hookups that are not online, but those hookups aren't available to other people.

confusatron · 09-11-2005, 11:04 PM

I ordered a Neuspeed lower rear brace, 4 point front under brace, and generic but solid looking front strut tower brace tonite. Those 4 point braces are hard to find, but I got one off ebay for about $60.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Blue-JDM-H-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Just ordered a set of Korbach Frame Locks.

Hey did I read somewhere that it's best to use a 94-01 Integra Tein coilover system as opposed to a 92-95 civic one, due to the increased weight of the B16? Because I found a store with decent prices on a Tein system. I don't wanna do it if it makes my ride so stiff it gives me spinal deformation though

EGProject · 09-12-2005, 10:23 AM

Done a lot of suspension work, and as Calesta said above, if I had to do it over, I would have dropped the $$ on coilovers from the start. I ended up buying AGX's (which I still dearly <3 ) and intially had them sprung with HP Racing Coilovers. They road like shit, and the rebound sucked. Dropped the $200 on Eibachs and I love them. However, now I am tempted to get solid upper mounts, and camber plates. Right now I'm holding off because I might make the jump to a set of coilovers.

Good sway bars are another good investment. I'm running a GSR front bar on my EG, but currently no rear one. (don't ask, I'm waiting to see what type of LCA/brace setup I'm going to run). No rear bar means plently of rear roll, and less contact patch on the rear under load - hence my title on my name. My car will life it's rear inside wheel under heavy cornering without hessitation.

I'm running cheapo Ractive strut braces F/R, and I like them. You need to adjust them to get the right kind of preload, but it's not hard. Loking back, I probably should have gotten a brace that connects to the firewall, but whatever.

Lastly, I have the ES urethane bushing set installed on my car, with the exception of the front control arms and steering rack bushings. It makes a HUGE difference, but if you run stuff springs and dampening you WILL feel every bump in the road. Without P/S, I could actually feel the raised reflective lines on the highway. If you get the full-setup expect to either do it on peice at a time, or have you car off the road for at least one week.

Here's my recommendation
-Coilovers, get them corner-weighted if you can.
-Good tower bars, preferably either Carbing, Neuspeed, or DC Sports.
-A GOOD rear bar with urethane mounts. Either Suspension Tech., Whiteline, Hotchkiss, CTR/ITR, or Blox.
-Get a good alignment.
-Good rubber. Crappy rebound and nerdy suspension tweaking can sometimes by negated through ridiculously sticky tires. For street setups though, a good hi-perf tire will make a huge difference regardless. (BFG KDW, Kuhmo, Hankook, Advan, etc.)

confusatron · 09-13-2005, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blanco@Sep 12 2005, 02:53 AM
One thing to remember, the better handling your suspension is the more road bumps you're going to feel. Honestly, you should have spent your money on the Neuspeed upper front bar instead of the lower rear, there's more stress in the front than in the rear.

Quoted post

I actually seriously considered the upper front bars by neuspeed and DC, but they both looked really wimpy, with only one bolt mounting point. The cheapo one that I got has a mounting point for all 4 strut mount bolts. Seems like it should be stronger than those other ones, I dunno.

confusatron · 09-13-2005, 12:43 AM

Are any of these braces going to do anything without front and rear sway bars?

Calesta · 09-13-2005, 01:44 AM

Yes, braces will do quite a bit with or without sway bars. They're totally independent of each other. You should ditch the generic eBay upper front brace and buy a Neuspeed, especially for your 93 hatch. The Neuspeed is one of the best bars you can buy for the money. It's solid, has no joints, and attaches on the 4 bolts that hold your upper control arms in place. When I replaced my cheapo eBay bar with a Neuspeed bar, I could instantly feel the difference in chassis rigidity. DC Sports strut braces are all jokes- don't even think about them.

confusatron · 09-14-2005, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calesta@Sep 13 2005, 12:44 AM
Yes, braces will do quite a bit with or without sway bars. They're totally independent of each other. You should ditch the generic eBay upper front brace and buy a Neuspeed, especially for your 93 hatch. The Neuspeed is one of the best bars you can buy for the money. It's solid, has no joints, and attaches on the 4 bolts that hold your upper control arms in place. When I replaced my cheapo eBay bar with a Neuspeed bar, I could instantly feel the difference in chassis rigidity. DC Sports strut braces are all jokes- don't even think about them.

Quoted post

I was looking at the wrong neuspeed bar. The one I saw was the lower one, it looked wimpy. I saw the other one last night, you're right. Too bad I already bought the cheapo one.

preludebuddy · 09-15-2005, 12:27 AM

I bought some omni power coilovers...much cheaper then tein. if you're looking for a smoother ride though, I don't suggest omnipower. Even their street setup is pretty stiff.

Calesta · 09-15-2005, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by confusatron@Sep 14 2005, 09:28 PM
I was looking at the wrong neuspeed bar. The one I saw was the lower one, it looked wimpy. I saw the other one last night, you're right. Too bad I already bought the cheapo one.

Quoted post

Just sell your eBay one and go with the Neuspeed. Trust me- there's that much of a difference.

confusatron · 09-17-2005, 11:07 PM

What would you recommend for a rear shock tower tie bar, or other upper rear bars of some kind?

pissedoffsol · 09-18-2005, 03:37 AM

they're all pretty much the same damn thing...

adnoh · 09-18-2005, 12:29 PM

These are my TEIN SS. I'm just reaffirming your choice to go with these. They have been the single best mod on my car, and a great street coilover.

About the ride quality and you killing your back while driving: yes, these can get that stiff, but that's why you have dampening adjustment. I honestly barely ever turn them up, unless I'm going lapping. Cliche comment: On the stiffest setting, these hurt my back, especially on bumpy roads. On the softest setting they're almost softer than stock. Keep in mind that the spring rates are only 390F 180R.

I wouldn't worry much about frame ties for now. A simple front strut tie and a rear sway bar will be all you need for street/light track. And I agree with Brian...they're pretty much all the same things. And the DC ones are some of the better units I've seen Because they're made from billet steel, not aluminum.

Here's the TEIN SS on my hatch:

Cashizslick · 09-18-2005, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by confusatron+Sep 8 2005, 01:18 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(confusatron @ Sep 8 2005, 01:18 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Calesta@Sep 8 2005, 01:16 AM
Yes, it's all worth it.... and they will all improve ride and handling in just about every aspect- but it all depends on what YOU call an "improvement". The better way to phrase a question would be to lay out what your goal/target for the car is in terms of handling, and what your budget is for suspension modification.

Quoted post

id like a smoother, less clunky ride, with firm handling and good cornering, especially in the rear

Quoted post

[/b][/quote]

KYB AGX struts with H&R Springs =

AGX's are cheeply priced and they ride well, not to mention the 5way adjustablility on the front and 8way rear's.

CiViC_SOHC · 09-18-2005, 04:41 PM

I got KYB AGX's 4 way all the way around and skunk 2 springs...pretty stiff...but its not so stiff that my back hurts...handles alright if I had some good tires other then my steelies and all season tires :P and I got a cheapo front strut bar...either my bar is twisted or my chassis is...and I think my chassis is becuase I noticed that they welded up my trunk...so I think it got rear ended...good to know after I bought the car

Calesta · 09-18-2005, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by confusatron@Sep 17 2005, 09:07 PM
What would you recommend for a rear shock tower tie bar, or other upper rear bars of some kind?

Quoted post

A good quality solid bar with no joints in it.

09-08-2005, 01:54 AM	#1
confusatron Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 464 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 13	I need some opinions from people who have done upgrades. I want to know if say like 1. a Tein SS coilover type system is worth the money, and what exactly it will improve about my ride/handling. 2. Tie bars/tower bars front and rear: do they really improve handling that much? If so, are they worth the investment? 3. Front and Rear sway bars. Worth the money? By "worth it " I mean I am looking to make my EG hatch corner and handle better, but with a little less bumpy overall ride than a stock EG hatch, if that is at all possible. Thanks __________________ 1993 Civic DX Hatch B16A SiR-II --SOLD! 1988 Supra Turbo automatic FOR SALE $2000 needs trans repair, power steering repair, a few leaks, Clean Body, Alpine, leather interior in decent shape, JDM motor rebuilt with HKS metal head gasket and ARP head bolts. 1996 Toyota Celica GT (daily driver)

09-08-2005, 02:16 AM	#2
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,440 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 288	Yes, it's all worth it.... and they will all improve ride and handling in just about every aspect- but it all depends on what YOU call an "improvement". The better way to phrase a question would be to lay out what your goal/target for the car is in terms of handling, and what your budget is for suspension modification. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

09-08-2005, 02:27 AM	#4
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,440 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 288	Ok- how much cash do you have to spend? I dropped probably around $5k on all my suspension goodies... and it feels really good to me. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

09-09-2005, 08:42 AM	#7
hybrid89 thistownsucks... Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: SoCal Age: 32 Posts: 1,821 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 33	start with, springs/coilovers and struts first, se where you are at and waht you are lacking after that. then work your way through the tie/strut bars as needed! __________________ id rather have a hondata and a stock block then a sleeved, pistons/rods combo and a hack or fmu

09-09-2005, 11:16 AM	#8
vtecsir1 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Age: 29 Posts: 2,753 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 43	biggest difference i have felt with my hatch was the addition of the 23mm itr rear sway bar. __________________ LS vtec build http://hondaswap.com/auto-multi-medi...t=lsvtec+build New GSR build 2009 http://hondaswap.com/auto-multi-medi...5/#post1400802


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09-10-2005, 02:46 AM	#10
confusatron Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 464 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 13	Great info, thanks a lot man. Can you recommend a coilover system (I'm partial to Tein, but really have no idea who makes the best coilover system for the money), and sites to buy suspension parts from? __________________ 1993 Civic DX Hatch B16A SiR-II --SOLD! 1988 Supra Turbo automatic FOR SALE $2000 needs trans repair, power steering repair, a few leaks, Clean Body, Alpine, leather interior in decent shape, JDM motor rebuilt with HKS metal head gasket and ARP head bolts. 1996 Toyota Celica GT (daily driver)

09-10-2005, 12:11 PM	#11
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,440 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 288	You're welcome. Omnipower is good for the money, and I honestly think that Tein is one of the better coilover values out there too. As for sites, I would just hunt around and check to see what sites have a good reputation, then buy from them. I get almost all my parts through hookups that are not online, but those hookups aren't available to other people. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

09-11-2005, 11:04 PM	#12
confusatron Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 464 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 13	I ordered a Neuspeed lower rear brace, 4 point front under brace, and generic but solid looking front strut tower brace tonite. Those 4 point braces are hard to find, but I got one off ebay for about $60. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Blue-JDM-H-...1QQcmdZViewItem Just ordered a set of Korbach Frame Locks. Hey did I read somewhere that it's best to use a 94-01 Integra Tein coilover system as opposed to a 92-95 civic one, due to the increased weight of the B16? Because I found a store with decent prices on a Tein system. I don't wanna do it if it makes my ride so stiff it gives me spinal deformation though __________________ 1993 Civic DX Hatch B16A SiR-II --SOLD! 1988 Supra Turbo automatic FOR SALE $2000 needs trans repair, power steering repair, a few leaks, Clean Body, Alpine, leather interior in decent shape, JDM motor rebuilt with HKS metal head gasket and ARP head bolts. 1996 Toyota Celica GT (daily driver)

09-13-2005, 12:43 AM	#15
confusatron Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 464 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 13	Are any of these braces going to do anything without front and rear sway bars? __________________ 1993 Civic DX Hatch B16A SiR-II --SOLD! 1988 Supra Turbo automatic FOR SALE $2000 needs trans repair, power steering repair, a few leaks, Clean Body, Alpine, leather interior in decent shape, JDM motor rebuilt with HKS metal head gasket and ARP head bolts. 1996 Toyota Celica GT (daily driver)

09-13-2005, 01:44 AM	#16
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dallas / Fort Worth, TX Age: 32 Posts: 24,440 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 288	Yes, braces will do quite a bit with or without sway bars. They're totally independent of each other. You should ditch the generic eBay upper front brace and buy a Neuspeed, especially for your 93 hatch. The Neuspeed is one of the best bars you can buy for the money. It's solid, has no joints, and attaches on the 4 bolts that hold your upper control arms in place. When I replaced my cheapo eBay bar with a Neuspeed bar, I could instantly feel the difference in chassis rigidity. DC Sports strut braces are all jokes- don't even think about them. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

09-15-2005, 12:27 AM	#18
preludebuddy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: putting the rad in colorado Posts: 372 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 15	I bought some omni power coilovers...much cheaper then tein. if you're looking for a smoother ride though, I don't suggest omnipower. Even their street setup is pretty stiff.

09-17-2005, 11:07 PM	#20
confusatron Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 464 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 13	What would you recommend for a rear shock tower tie bar, or other upper rear bars of some kind? __________________ 1993 Civic DX Hatch B16A SiR-II --SOLD! 1988 Supra Turbo automatic FOR SALE $2000 needs trans repair, power steering repair, a few leaks, Clean Body, Alpine, leather interior in decent shape, JDM motor rebuilt with HKS metal head gasket and ARP head bolts. 1996 Toyota Celica GT (daily driver)

09-18-2005, 03:37 AM	#21
pissedoffsol RETIRED Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Retirement Home Age: 29 Posts: 49,951 iTrader: 2 / 100% Ride: Electric Scooter Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 531	they're all pretty much the same damn thing...

09-18-2005, 12:29 PM	#22
adnoh Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ontario Age: 29 Posts: 1,017 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 22	These are my TEIN SS. I'm just reaffirming your choice to go with these. They have been the single best mod on my car, and a great street coilover. About the ride quality and you killing your back while driving: yes, these can get that stiff, but that's why you have dampening adjustment. I honestly barely ever turn them up, unless I'm going lapping. Cliche comment: On the stiffest setting, these hurt my back, especially on bumpy roads. On the softest setting they're almost softer than stock. Keep in mind that the spring rates are only 390F 180R. I wouldn't worry much about frame ties for now. A simple front strut tie and a rear sway bar will be all you need for street/light track. And I agree with Brian...they're pretty much all the same things. And the DC ones are some of the better units I've seen Because they're made from billet steel, not aluminum. Here's the TEIN SS on my hatch: __________________ 1998 Acura Integra Type R #864

09-18-2005, 04:41 PM	#24
CiViC_SOHC Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 940 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 19	I got KYB AGX's 4 way all the way around and skunk 2 springs...pretty stiff...but its not so stiff that my back hurts...handles alright if I had some good tires other then my steelies and all season tires :P and I got a cheapo front strut bar...either my bar is twisted or my chassis is...and I think my chassis is becuase I noticed that they welded up my trunk...so I think it got rear ended...good to know after I bought the car __________________ 1992 EG8 Civic Sedan / '98 D16Y7 swapping a D16Z6...TURBO! Support the local Performance shop. <a href=\"http://aeiperformance.com/\" target=\"_blank\">AEI performance</a>

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Suspension Upgrades: What is worth the $ for