Can J-spec Motor Be Smog Referee?

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DJCujo69

Junior Member
I got a j-spec b16a in my 89 civic. Can I get it smog referee in California. If i can what needs to be done to it. Has anyone got a j-spec motor referreed and got the bar code sticker for it in there car in California. Thanx.
 

chet

Senior Member
our california members need to write a definitive article on how to deal with smog ref's in california. here in florida, we don't have any emissions which means the cat is the first piece of the stock exhaust to go.

keep bumping this to the top until a california member responds appropriately.
 

chris

Senior Member
it can be done. but technically it is not a legal motor. the motor needs to be the SAME year or NEWER as the original motor in the car. also according to the written law it needs to be a California motor.

you will need to pass 2 parts a visual and tailpipe. all original smog equipment needs to be inplace and it needs to pass the sniffer. which it shouldnt have a problem if its stock and all sensors and smog equipment is hooked up. ok with all that being said, the hard part is obviously the visual. it depends on teh ref i am sorry to say.

they will usuallly run the block number to get info on the motor, the jdm number will not show up on their list. so its up to them what they wanna do about it. i have friends that pass with canadian motors and jdm ones. the refs simply let the fact taht the number didnt register pass and asked about the year of the motor. and went on to the tail pipe part of the test.

bottom line is; no not legal, BUT it can pass if u want to risk it. if you are in teh bay area i can point you to some more "friendly" smog stations and ref's. hope that didnt jsut creat more confusion :(
 

paragus

Senior Member
yea.. i can do a write up if you guys want with links to the cali ref sites...i will be facing the same thing your facing djcujo and ive done tons of research on this..

chris kinda got it.

Originally posted by chris+Jan 12 2003, 10:15 PM-->
it can be done. but technically it is not a legal motor.
it can be done, and it will be a legal motor. And he's right it has to be the same year or newer. BUT since this is a JDM motor you really dont know what year it is. So just make sure you say that its the same year or newer.

Originally posted by chris@Jan 12 2003, 10:15 PM
also according to the written law it needs to be a California motor.

no, this is not true.


Originally posted by chris@Jan 12 2003, 10:15 PM
you will need to pass 2 parts a visual and tailpipe. all original smog equipment needs to be inplace and it needs to pass the sniffer.

yes..this is correct

Originally posted by chris@Jan 12 2003, 10:15 PM
which it shouldnt have a problem if its stock and all sensors and smog equipment is hooked up..

no.. this is a problem because you have a JDM motor. not all motors, even in the us, are 50 state legal. some CA motors have extra smog parts on it. You need to put all the smog parts off of the US motor onto the JDM motor. Because the JDM motor is missing a few things.

Originally posted by chris@Jan 12 2003, 10:15 PM
it depends on teh ref i am sorry to say.

if you've done the stuff from above it wont depend on the ref

Originally posted by chris@Jan 12 2003, 10:15 PM
they will usuallly run the block number to get info on the motor, the jdm number will not show up on their list. so its up to them what they wanna do about it.

if your going to a ref they will know its a JDM motor. Trust me your not the first to try to do this, and your gonna have to tell them. And this is where i think chris is confusing the ref with the everyday smog guy. The ref's are state certified you cant pay these guys off and they just dont let the fact go, and keep moving on with the test. They inspect your car in detail.


chris
@Jan 12 2003, 10:15 PM
bottom line is; no not legal, BUT it can pass if u want to risk it. if you are in teh bay area i can point you to some more "friendly" smog stations and ref's.


bottom line is, it is legal, tell the ref what your trying to do and they work with you. there is no risk. there are people who have done it. And there are such things as friendly smog stations that you pay $200 so your car can pass for another 2 years. BUT there is no such thing as a friendly smog ref, but once you get that bar sticker.. you dont have to worry about being harrassed by the popo and dont have to look for friendly smog stations and pay $200 for something that should cost $20

Now. if you dont pass the first time. dont worry. you can come back a second time for free. But if you gotta go back a third time you gotta pay.. and i believe if you go back a fouth its free and so on and so on.

And... if you have a V-afc. becareful. turn it to the tach or hide it. Some of the ref's dont like seeing those, seeing as you can manipulate when vtec hits and the air/fuel ratio. BUT if you do have this.. hide it and turn your vtec up to engage at like 8000 rpm and set your car lean. It will help you pass. because vtec will never engage because they dont rev your car that much, and your car is running lean..

hopefully that answers all your questions.. if you got more.. just ask them.. and ill get on that write up soon..
 

chris

Senior Member
good to see someone went into the details, the info that i was providing was when i was researching it about 4 years ago, i spoke with the guy in sacramento regarding the my situation and he was pretty helpful. i guess things have changed a little since then to make it more friendly.

As for my comment about the ref's, from numerous experiences with friends, it HAS been up to the subjective standards by the refs alot of the time. i hope for all of us that this has changed as well. some would not see the jdm block numbers fitting in the US system and would fail the car immediately. while some just shrugged it off and moved on.

a more current write up would be really helpful paragus. i am interested in learning more about it as well.
 

paragus

Senior Member
yea the whole thing of JDM motors being legal is fairly new..from what i understand only a few years old.. if even that. i havent even started the write up.. but i will soon when i get a lot of time just to sit down and do it all at once..heres some info to back me up, so it doesnt look like im just talking outta my ass :p :lol:


Japanese Replacement Engines
Used engines imported from Japan can be used as replacement engines as long as the engine being used has been identified as functionally identical to the original engine. Please refer to the engine importers catalogue to determine if a replacement engine is legal for installation in your vehicle.

you can find that quote and more info at this site
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm
 

Havok

Senior Member
lol, someone give paragous some owned pics!

s3e17c87fb41c5.jpg
 

chris

Senior Member
as long as the engine being used has been identified as functionally identical to the original engine


see the problem with the phrasing in that quote is it has to be identical to the original engine, which in most cases will be the stock D series. I know direct Japanese replacement engines are fine, it has been a long practiced business. Its perfeclty fine to swap a USDM D series with a JDM D series as well as a USDM B16 (EK SI) with a JDM b16. there is nothing that states that you can swap a USDM D with a JDM B series, two completely different motors.

also it does still state that the motor be a California certified motor (what i referred to in my original post.

If the vehicle is a California certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California certified engine.



Not trying to argue in anyway, just interpreting the language of the law in an objective manner. it seems like there is a lot of room to construe it in different ways tho.

very good site, i would recommend calling the number that they have listed and pick their brains about this issue, last time i called they were more than helpful, and i am sure that they will be used to this question now and can provide u with the right answers.
 

paragus

Senior Member
yea its tricky the way they word it. I battled it in my head, then i just called a ref.. cuz unlike DJCujo69 i didnt want to buy a JDM motor.. then ask questions later..lol. So I called him and asked him to interpret it for me. And what he said was "The JDM motor must match is USDM counterpart".

Its perfeclty fine to swap a USDM D series with a JDM D series as well as a USDM B16 (EK SI) with a JDM b16. there is nothing that states that you can swap a USDM D with a JDM B series, two completely different motors.


i know.. but you gotta read a little more on that page..it says

Engine Changes
The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy- duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.


right under about CA certified motors..lol. I never saw that when i read that page... But thats confusing.. what do they mean by CA certified? If they mean a motor from CA then how is it legal to have JDM motors. You know what i mean?? weird..

what i know is that when i talked to the ref. I specifically asked him, is it ok if i put the JDM h22 prelude motor in my 93 civic hatch. And he told me its fine as long as the motor matches its USDM counterpart, as in having all its smog equipment..

i think ill hold off on that write up till i get it done :p then i can write off personal experience, not just homework. which should be (feb/march) time.
 

paragus

Senior Member
that shit was bugging me.. so i did a little more homework.. it clears up the whole can i get my JDM motor certified.. but it doesnt really clear up the whole CA certified engine thing.. i think they should remove that sentence its kinda contradictive IMO.. but here... this page busts out with the actual codes and shit.

http://arbis.arb.ca.gov/MSPROG/MACMAIL/Importat.htm
GENERAL POLICY: An imported used engine can be legally sold in California if it meets the definition of a replacement part. Pursuant to Title 13, CCR, section 2224, and Executive Order G-45-9, the ARB has determined that used imported engines must demonstrate that they qualify as replacement parts because they were not designed to comply with federal or California emission standards. An imported used engine can be considered a replacement part under the following conditions:

1. Existing emission control components and engine accessories are removed from the engine, and

2. Engines are equipped or capable of being equipped with the required California-certified emission control system, and

3. Importers maintain sufficient records to substantiate that the imported used engine is functionally identical to the original engine in all respects which in any way affect emissions (section 2221(B)). Such records shall be open for inspection by the ARB. The ARB will consider the following records as sufficient to substantiate that the used imported engine is functionally identical to the original engine.

    a) Parts list showing identical part numbers used for both the California-certified engine and the used imported engine, or

    B) A comparative emissions test using Cold Start CVS-75 Federal Test Procedures (FTP) in accordance with Title 40, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 86. The test vehicle's original catalytic converter must be retained and properly functioning. Testing will be performed on the test vehicle in the original as-built configuration (baseline) and then with the imported used engine installed (modified). The baseline emissions of the test vehicle should be typical for that particular make, model and model-year. Typical baseline emissions will be supplied by the ARB upon request. Emissions from the modified test must not exceed the baseline emissions to show that the imported used engine is functionally identical to the original engine.

Importers and installers are subject to enforcement action under Title 13, CCR, section 2225, if found to be selling, offering for sale, or installing imported used engines which are not in compliance with the requirements for replacement parts.
 
those guys know what they are talking about, but here is a page from the California Air Resources Board's official website. scroll down about 2/3 of the page, where it says "Engine Changes". that is what you need to know. i posted this a while back in this forum but it seems to have gotten lost.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm

here it is, copied from that page:

"Engine Changes"

Engine changes are legal as long as the following requirements are met to ensure that the change does not increase pollution from the vehicle:

The engine must be the same year or newer than the vehicle.

The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy- duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.

If the vehicle is a California certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California certified engine.

All emissions control equipment must remain on the installed engine.

After an engine change, vehicles must first be inspected by a state referee station. The vehicle will be inspected to ensure that all the equipment required is in place, and vehicle will be emissions tested subject to the specifications of the installed engine.


(i dont know what they mean by "a california certified engine". i guess that is important)
at the bottom of the page there are phone numbers and an address so u can contact them with any questions.
 

paragus

Senior Member
just giving an update.. i called and the CARB people and the girl couldnt really answer my question, she did but she didnt.. so a state ref is going to call me in 2 business days, and hopefully then we will have an answer.
 

paragus

Senior Member
i just got off the phone with the ref. And he basically was saying what i said before. As long as the motor is the same year or newer, and its matches its USDM counterpart. You will need a USDM ECU also. Get a helms if you dont have one and make sure all the vacumme lines are connected the way it looks like in the helms. And if you have a JDM 4-1 header you need to get a USDM header the JDM 4-1 wont pass.

and as far as what the website says. its confusing. Its doing a Japanese Replacement and a Engine Change at the same time. Its like this. You have a d15 you swap it out for a USDM b18c1. Then you fuck that motor up and replace it with a JDM b18c and make it match the USDM one. Basically your doing all this but skipping the USDM one. Thats why the motor doesnt have to be CA certified for a engine change. Make sense? if not ill try to clear it up better.
 

WHITESHADOW

Junior Member
Hello,
I'm new to this forum but I have a question regarding the vacuum lines and ECU. From what I understand I would have to come up with a USDM ECU and find the vacuum lines off of a USDM engine because the JDM does not come equipped with these. Is this correct. If so do these swap shops do this as part of there procedure?

Hello BTW my name is Mark and I'm from Walnut/Pasadena CA and drive a 91 hatch.

Thanks for the great info :)
 

paragus

Senior Member
correct you need a USDM ECU. And the USDM vacuum lines are a little different then the JDM vacuum lines, in regards as to where they connect. So just make your JDM one match your USDM diagrams. And i dont know of any swap shops that make this their procedure. But just ask, they may. Who knows. And your welcome. :D
 

2 litre EG

Senior Member
yeah its a pretty tricky subject and honestly i DO NOT know all the rules and regulations about it... but a friend of mine does.

he has gotten a couple of right hand drive honda's registered here in california, and also his EK whick had a built B20 in it... if i can get a hold of him then i can get some details of what he had to do...

but if it is all listed in the state ref's website then just read it off there :D

i know i'll do some reading when i get more time
 
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