Raising minimum wage

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GSRCRXsi

Super Moderator
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they make a lot of those machines in the US for final assembly. i'm not talking start to finish. if you think there arent assembly lines in the US doing this exact type of manufacturing, you're kidding yourself.

but it was just hypothetical anyway. my main point is that from the user standpoint Automated machines > slow/lazy cashiers.
 

corvetteguy78

Well-Known Member
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they make a lot of those machines in the US for final assembly. i'm not talking start to finish. if you think there arent assembly lines in the US doing this exact type of manufacturing, you're kidding yourself.

but it was just hypothetical anyway. my main point is that from the user standpoint Automated machines > slow/lazy cashiers.

So Automated Phones systems are more efficient then the old days of calling and having someone pick up immediately insteaded of routing you to 4 different menus with 9 choices per menu.

I think not....
 

Briansol

Admins
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and they all spoke English, first, without having to choose 1.
 

GSRCRXsi

Super Moderator
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You're taking it out of context. I'm talking about automated checkout machines.

Not everysingleautomatedsystemevermade.
 

E_SolSi

Member of the 20 nut club
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i love apples to porcupine comparisons

i agree with GSRCRXsi
i use the self checkout almost exclusively for many of the same reasons: shorter lines, faster, more efficient, easier to bag my own shit (with my own bags), no slow incompetent jackass working the register, less interaction with people i have no interest in interacting with

maybe 1 in 20 times i will need to wait for an attendant to come over if something doesn't scan properly or there is some other issue
 

BigJ

I'm just about that action Boss.
VIP
Have you ever thought about the impact of not using a human?

By using an automated device, you've allowed the company to do the same work and increase profit while taking a job away from someone.

If you want to bring jobs back, stop using automated devices.
Demand a human.

This is the modern problem of the new age of automation. When in doubt, automate. The world we live in....
 

GSRCRXsi

Super Moderator
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So Automated Phones systems are more efficient then the old days of calling and having someone pick up immediately insteaded of routing you to 4 different menus with 9 choices per menu.

I think not....
But to directly address this. What about times of high call volumes? What's better? A few mins of menu selection to at least get in the correct queue? Or playing Russian roulette with the busy signal to even get through because there aren't enough people to answer the phones?

Yeah. I'd say even an automated phone system wins.
 

SlushboxTeggy

It's only stupid if it doesn't work
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So Automated Phones systems are more efficient then the old days of calling and having someone pick up immediately insteaded of routing you to 4 different menus with 9 choices per menu.

I think not....
Have you got a person on the phone recently? Might as well be automated. They are reading off a script and if you interupt them, they get flustered, and start all over again. Or you get a professional fuck-with-er.

Me-"I want to cancel X"
Them- "Well what can we do to keep you as a customer?"
Me- "Nothing. You had your chance. Cancel it."
Them-"I'm sure there is something"

And this goes back and forth until I hang up, or I curse and they are allowed to hang up. I"m looking up where this call center is and they still have me as a customer.
 

corvetteguy78

Well-Known Member
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i love apples to porcupine comparisons

i agree with GSRCRXsi
i use the self checkout almost exclusively for many of the same reasons: shorter lines, faster, more efficient, easier to bag my own shit (with my own bags), no slow incompetent jackass working the register, less interaction with people i have no interest in interacting with

maybe 1 in 20 times i will need to wait for an attendant to come over if something doesn't scan properly or there is some other issue

Automation is Automation....not sure where you get Apples to Porcupines...

Self checkout lines are horrible, something in your pile isn't going to ring up correctly and the person running the line is never there to help you....it takes twice as long to get the fuck out of the store
 

E_SolSi

Member of the 20 nut club
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:shrug2:
my experience disagrees with your assumption

simply means one less person in line at the self check out... looks like ill be out even quicker... works for me :thumbsup:
 

Capt. Orygun

Win the Day
I'm not an economist, so I can't speak to a magical dollar amount or a percentage. While I am usually a free market-leaning guy, you have to view everything in context. Viewing the current minimum wage in context, realizing that the minimum wage is actually 16% lower than it was under Reagan, I have to break from my usual "free market" stance and admit that the minimum wage needs to be raised.

Not only is the minimum wage worth less than it was under Reagan, but income tax rates are lower, there are more loop-holes (or at least more loop-holes than after Reagan's 1986 tax reform (which was a great piece of legislation), and all of this is happening while the Dow and corporate profits are at or near all time highs. There is nothing in this paragraph that is in factual dispute.

Thus, to continue to rally for lower taxes and no minimum wage reform is to fail to understand how class economics have shifted in the last 30 years or so. These factors, along with good things that do unfortunate things to unemployment such as 3D printing, make the middle class an endangered species. People assume the middle-class is just a given, and it isn't. Before the industrial revolution there was no middle class: if you weren't in business you farmed. There were laborers, but not at the level we think of today. The simple fact is we cannot all go back to farming, there are too many people now and we don't give away land anymore. The increases in poverty and unemployment, if not checked, will lead to higher property crime rates... people do not go hungry quietly.

The obviously problem is that this doesn't work for most small businesses. McDonald's could afford such a pay raise, but the mom-and-pop diner down the block? It would break them. One of the reasons we never get anything done in this country is that our legislators argue against moving forward because of the effects one move will have on another issue. All that to say: the minimum wage hike needs to be bundled with tax breaks and credits for small businesses, a marginal tax increase, a draw-down in tax loop-holes, and some sort of policy package to give new ventures more tax flexibility.

The knee jerk reaction is to call me a "socialist," but once you understand the numbers, what I am really calling for is a world that looks more like Reagan's

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-obama-says-minimum-wage-was-higher-during-r/
 

corvetteguy78

Well-Known Member
VIP
:shrug2:
my experience disagrees with your assumption

simply means one less person in line at the self check out... looks like ill be out even quicker... works for me :thumbsup:



http://news.yahoo.com/self-checkout...vBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAzIyOF8x

Interesting things to take away from this Article:

Studies show that theft is up 5x with self check out lanes
Nearly 85% of consumers opt for Human Cashiers
Big national retail stores such as Albertsons and Big Y have begun removing self check out lanes
 

BigJ

I'm just about that action Boss.
VIP
I'm not an economist, so I can't speak to a magical dollar amount or a percentage. While I am usually a free market-leaning guy, you have to view everything in context. Viewing the current minimum wage in context, realizing that the minimum wage is actually 16% lower than it was under Reagan, I have to break from my usual "free market" stance and admit that the minimum wage needs to be raised.



http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-obama-says-minimum-wage-was-higher-during-r/

Well written response.

The largest argument, or question more so, I have for a higher wages (not $15, but like $10) is what happens to tax payers who are already paying low wage earners big benefits at large corporations in terms of welfare, social programs, and housing. Is it enough to get people off these social benefits they've been reeming on for years now, and have raised multiple generations on?

I got this hippy complex in that says throw some books at them at them, get them in trade school, etc But we know those middle class jobs aren't as easy to come by. And people are lazy when they can get paid for free. And the capitalist in me says we need more job creators, let's give some tax breaks to the job creators. Oh yeah. Wait. Stock prices are at an all time high. The market has been a bull now for 2 straight years and job creation has been marginal at best. (I know this differs from who you look at, but my personal feeling is companies got lean and will stay as lean, which is my new philosophy in business because I'm a capitalist.)

This is the political turmoil in america right now and its very polarizing, which is unfortunate because its affecting everyone, regardless of your socioeconomic standing.
 

Briansol

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I'm not an economist either.
But I have extensive root cause analysis training.

My put-

The problem is not the min wage.

The problem is inflation and the dollar's value being washed away, favoring debtors, like our government, and punishing those with assets, like cash savings, thus making people NOT save cash as there's no point to do it, which makes the economy unstable (no cash reserves in a job loss/etc), and increases the stock markets as its the only real place to put money and get any return on it, which continues to drive the numbers to support lower tax rates because the dollar value is higher (5% of 2 billion or 10% of 1 billion is the same gross receipt).

The answer to that is usually that limited inflation drives the economy. I don't see why it has to exist at all.

$1 should always be 1 dollar.
Much like 1" is always 1 inch.

We've created an endless cycle of debt based on a debt-based currency, not one of credit. It is impossible to stop the train.
You can thank senior Woodrow and his bullied congress for this. A progressive movement leader. The root of most of this past century's fiscal problems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Act
 

DarkHand

Senior Member
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I usually check myself out (was a cashier at 17 so I've got the credentials :p), but lately I actually wait in line for the human checkout. Nothing to do with jobs, I've just been lazy. :) If they're exceptionally slow I'll just walk over to the self check.

They really need to do what they did when I was cashiering, have contests for the fastest cashiers with the lowest error rate. Three fastest of the month would get store credit, bonuses, gift cards, etc. And due to that our manager had one of the fastest stores in the region.
 
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