the bailout is a raging success

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Member of the 20 nut club
hey guess what....


yes that's right... they want another 16.6 BILLION DOLLARS... in addition to the 13.4 BILLION DOLLARS they already took... for a total of 30 BILLION DOLLARS
oh and they are going to be closing 5 plants and cutting 47,000 jobs in addition to the 30 BILLION DOLLARS they are taking in bail out bucks

GM seeks up to $30B in aid, will cut 47,000 jobs - Yahoo! Finance

GM seeks up to $30B in aid, will cut 47,000 jobs

GM says it may need up to $30B in gov't financing; plan will slash 47,000 jobs, close 5 plants

DETROIT (AP) -- General Motors Corp., presenting a dire outlook for the future, said Tuesday it may need $30 billion in total government financing to weather the economic downturn and would cut 47,000 jobs worldwide and shutter five more U.S. factories in a massive restructuring plan.The job cuts, which would take place by the end of this year, include 10,000 salaried and 37,000 blue-collar positions, amounting to 19 percent of the company's current global work force.
GM is already surviving on $13.4 billion in federal loans and said in a 117-page plan submitted to the Treasury Department that it would seek an additional $16.6 billion if economic conditions worsen, but it could achieve profitability in two years and fully repay its loans by 2017.
The U.S. automaker presented its turnaround plan as it worked to win concessions from the United Auto Workers union and bondholders to dramatically resize the company. The UAW said it reached a tentative deal with GM, Chrysler LLC and Ford Motor Co. on contract changes, but discussions were still under way about how the companies would fund union-run trust funds that will take over the companies' retiree health care obligations starting next year.
GM said it was making progress but had not yet achieved all the concessions from union workers, lenders, dealers and suppliers that the Bush administration sought in the loan terms provided last December.
Chief Financial Officer Ray Young said the company hopes to exchange two-thirds of its roughly $28 billion in unsecured bond debt by the end of March in order to meet the loan terms.
Bondholders, he said, signed a letter saying that they were making progress with the company. The UAW also signed a similar letter saying progress had been made on the health care trust fund. The terms of the loan suggest that GM make half of the required $20 billion in payments to the fund as company stock instead of cash.
Young said the talks have reached a critical stage.
"At this juncture we feel we can make progress" and meet requirements to finalize the deals by March 31, he said.
President Barack Obama's administration will review the plans from GM and Chrysler LLC but could pull the loans if they don't approve the turnaround plans by then. The review could be extended into April, but if the government demands the money back it would force the companies into bankruptcy.
Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner said the plan submitted Tuesday is more aggressive than the one presented to the government in December because besides U.S. sales plummeting to a 26-year low, the global economy and auto sales worldwide have deteriorated since then.
"Today's plan is significantly more aggressive because it has to be," Wagoner told reporters Tuesday night. "We have taken stronger actions, we needed to."
In December, GM said it might need a total of $18 billion in government financing but only got a commitment of $13.4 billion, including $4 billion that the automaker received Tuesday.
GM predicted it could run out of money next month and said it wants to receive an additional $2 billion in March and an additional $2.6 billion in April.
The company has a $4.5 billion revolving line of credit that must be refinanced in 2011 but now believes that private funding won't be available, so the automaker is asking the government to lend the money.
If market conditions deteriorate, GM says it may also need an additional $7.5 billion revolving line of credit to stay afloat, for a total potential request of $30 billion.
Chief Operating Officer Fritz Henderson said the company explored three bankruptcy scenarios, all of which would cost the government more than $30 billion.
The government, he said, is the only place the company could get financing for a Chapter 11 reorganization, because the credit markets are frozen. The worst-case bankruptcy scenario would cost the government $100 billion, Henderson said, because revenue would severely drop.
He said there is not a lot of research about whether people would buy cars from an automaker in bankruptcy protection, but "that which is there suggests that sales fall off a cliff."
GM's plan details extensive cuts. Of the 47,000 jobs to be slashed, 26,000 will be outside the U.S. The new plan has the U.S. work force declining from about 92,000 hourly and salaried employees at the end 2008 to 72,000 by 2012.
In its Dec. 2 plan to the Bush administration, GM said it would cut the number of plants from 47 in 2008 to 38 by 2012. But the new blueprint goes further, cutting an additional five plants by 2012 to a total of 33 facilities. GM didn't identify which plants will be closed.
GM would further reduce the number of vehicle models. The plan envisions a reduction in nameplates from 48 in 2008 to 36 by 2012. That's four fewer models than in the December plan.
GM said all of its major U.S. vehicle launches from 2009 to 2014 would be high-mileage cars and crossovers.
GM's eight brands would be reduced to four core lines -- Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC -- as the automaker said in December. But the company said Pontiac also would remain as "a highly focused niche brand."
GM, which has been reviewing the Saab brand and offered it for sale, said the Swedish unit could file for bankruptcy later this month. GM said it is requesting support from the Swedish government prior to any sale, and the company has developed a proposal that would cap GM's financial support with Saab's operations becoming an independent business by January 2010.
Wagoner said the company is still talking to potential buyers for the Hummer brand.
"We're going to try to draw that to a conclusion one way or another by the end of March," he said.
The Saturn brand, meanwhile, will remain in operation through the end of 2011. GM said it's open to the possibility of a plan from retailers or investors that would allow a spin-off or sale of Saturn.
GM would significantly accelerate the number of gas-electric hybrids and plug-in hybrid cars. It plans to offer 14 hybrids and plug-ins by 2012 and 26 by 2014, when alternative-fuel vehicles are expected to account for 65 percent of sales.
Included in the projection is the plug-in Chevrolet Volt, due in showrooms by late 2010, and two additional vehicles sharing the Volt's extended-range electric vehicle technology.
GM, however, is scaling back its anticipated fuel economy gains, a metric closely watched by environmentalists in Congress. GM said it will meet federal fuel efficiency standards through the 2015 model years, but the progress will be slower.
The Dec. 2 plan said its car fleet average would reach 37.3 miles per gallon by 2012 compared with 31.6 in 2008. But GM now predicts its car fleet will reach 33.7 mpg by 2012 and not surpass 38 mpg until 2014.
Associated Press Writer Ken Thomas reported from Washington.
Treasury Department Web site with automaker restructuring plans:


Member of the 20 nut club
oh good... Chrystler wants more too

Chrysler seeks $9B of gov't aid in viability plan

NEW YORK – Chrysler LLC said it needs $9 billion of total government financing and it plans to cut 3,000 jobs and eliminate three vehicle models as part of its restructuring plan submitted to the Treasury Department on Tuesday.
Chrysler, which has been kept alive by the $4 billion in government loans it already has received, also said it has implemented or reached fundamental agreements on concessions with unions, dealers, suppliers and lenders to comply with the requirements of its government loans and make its labor costs competitive with those at foreign automakers' U.S. plants.
The United Auto Workers union said in a statement that it reached tentative understandings with Chrysler, General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. on modifications to their 2007 contracts. But the union said discussions were still under way about how the companies would fund union-run trust funds that will take over the retiree health care obligations starting next year.
When Chrysler originally asked for government aid in December it said it would need a total of $7 billion. But the Auburn Hills, Mich., company said Tuesday that the economy and the market for new cars has deteriorated significantly since its initial request.
"We have continued to see an unprecedented decline in the automotive sector," Chrysler Chief Executive Bob Nardelli said in a conference call with reporters.
Chrysler said it now projects that automakers will sell 10.1 million vehicles in the U.S. this year, the lowest level in four decades. Previously, the company had predicted yearly sales of 11.1 million.
Chrysler Vice Chairman and President Jim Press said in the conference call that the company will eliminate the Chrysler Aspen, Dodge Durango and Chrysler PT Cruiser models.
The Aspen and Durango, both large sport utility vehicles, recently have been among the worst-selling vehicles in the company's lineup. The PT Cruiser, which was released to much fanfare in 2000 due to its funky styling, has also seen its sales slump.
Nardelli said Chrysler management will comply with restrictions on executive compensation. He also said the company has eliminated company matching to employee 401(k) plans, has ended merit pay increases and has made other white-collar cost cuts.
The company also said that as part of its restructuring plan, it will reduce production capacity by 100,000 units and cut fixed costs by $700 million in 2009. The company said it will sell $300 million in "non-earning assets" in 2009 and plans to start paying back its government loans in 2012.
Chrysler said it still plans 24 vehicle launches in the next 48 months and reiterated its intention to put an electric vehicle on the road by 2010.
The 199 pages that Chrysler submitted to the Treasury Department included the alternative of bankruptcy, should the government not come through with additional aid.
Nardelli said a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing would require some $20 billion to $25 billion in debtor-in-possession financing, or else the company would have to liquidate.
"This is not a course of action we're recommending," Nardelli said. "But to be absolutely clear, we're confident we can succeed given the ... government loans and the constituent concessions."
Last month, Chrysler announced a nonbinding alliance with Italian automaker Fiat SpA, under which Fiat would take a 35 percent stake in Chrysler and share its small-car technology. Chrysler has been hobbled by a vehicle lineup that is heavily reliant on trucks and sport utility vehicles.
That tie-up was contingent on Chrysler getting additional government aid. Chrysler stood by that alliance Tuesday, saying it would enhance its viability plan and improve its product lineup.
"Although our plan demonstrates we're viable as a standalone company, a potential global alliance with Fiat would enhance our long-term prospects by providing us access to additional small vehicles" and fuel-efficient technologies, Nardelli said.
Chrysler said it lost $8 billion in 2008 but during that time it cut fixed costs by $3.1 billion, slashed its work force by 32,000, or 37 percent, and discontinued four models, among other cost-saving measures.
However, the company has been plagued by the downturn in sales and has experienced the most severe sales drop among the Detroit Three. Chrysler's U.S. sales fell 55 percent in January, compared with a 37 percent drop across the entire industry.
General Motors Corp. also outlined its restructuring proposal to the U.S. government Tuesday. GM's restructuring plan said it may need up to $30 billion in government loans as it implements a survival plan that includes cutting 47,000 jobs and closing five more U.S. factories.


Member of the 20 nut club
does anyone really believe that if we just throw enough money at this it will fix itself?????



build a car that doesn't suck and maybe you won't go out of buisness.

Now, the gov't is "pot committed" to throw a poker term in there... if they don't give more, they totally wasted X billion from before.

I said let them fail 5 months ago...
everyone bitched about losing jobs....
now, you're still going to lose your job and cost us a shit ton of more debt.

told ya so.


Senior Member

Please sir, may I have some more?


Member of the 20 nut club
id say this is a more accurate representation of what is going on here



Like so many industry analysts told the "bailout" geniuses, if you give them "X", they are going to be back for more, once "X" runs out.

Viability plan? WTF? If I have a private business that is about to tank, why don't I get a chance to propose a "viability plan".

Let GM file Chapter 11, let Chrysler tank and we'll all be happy.

My god, people are talking about billions of dollars like they are just buying sticks of gum. It's ridiculous. All this money adds up, and we will NEVER see it again. Truth is, GM doesn't even make a profit from selling cars anymore because of the ludicrous overhead and pressure from the unions.

Tons of automakers are rolling out new models, revamping production, and changing up sales plans to adapt - and most aren't doing TOO bad. All GM can say is;

"ZOMG, were gonna make the VOLT and revolutionize EVERTHING!!!!!!1111ONE".

They can't even roll the Camaro out in time, let alone produce a next-gen hybrid. Chances are even if it DOES come out the new prius and insight will rape it anyway.


my avatar is better.
The problem with American automakers is the availability of options and producing cars that no one wants. I was reading/watching (somewhere) the news and they stated that US automakers have roughly 1000 options on their cars and are producing cars with these varying options... that are not selling. the Camry/Accord which has been the top selling cars for years... have 17 options. US automakers are really starting to fall apart... I admit that and I own a Ford :(


fucking junk!!! let it go already,ive been wih B since his whole started,
im also predicting honda will be heading this route in the far future,


^^ Likes Bewbies
I don't think Honda will be headed this route. I think they are going to take the same tactics as Toyota did and just slow production and eliminate unnecessary projects.

I found this in my searches. It's a link to an article regarding what vehicles Chrysler and the others are cutting out of their production line in an attempt to save money. vehicle lineups

GM is even asking the Swedish government for money so they can find a buyer for Saab. Otherwise, Saab is going the way of the dinosaurs.
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Junior Member
This is great news. We are slowly killing all traditional American Company brands exactly what a one world government would want.. Loose your identity.. reject your own.. become the melting pot forget country pride... what has it done for you? I say all of that with a smile.. I want a Vote. . Keep GM and Chrysler or let them fail.. if my tax money dictates continuation I want a vote.


Well-Known Member

I think what most of you fail to see is the big picture. The government doesn't give a shit if a company goes out of business, it happens all the time. This is a crisis. Thousands and Thousands of people stand to loose there jobs. Which means they can't pay there bills, and will loose their homes and jobs and don't put money back into the economey etc...Is 800 billion the answer? Who knows, but they have to try something. Be thankful they are taken some action. No one asked for this to happen, but the "smartest" people in the country are working on trying to come up with a solution and pumping money into companies to keep them afloat and to save peoples jobs and to create new jobs seems to be a logical solution.

What if it works? Will people remember Obama as one the greatest President of all time? Or if it fails will he be known as a complete douche bag?

Give it a chance and let's see what happens


Member of the 20 nut club
news flash... we are pumping BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars into them, and thousands and thousands of people are loosing their job any fucking way


Well-Known Member
news flash... we are pumping BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars into them, and thousands and thousands of people are loosing their job any fucking way

Well I never expected that once the bill passes that everything would instantly work out overnight. I give it two years.


my avatar is better.
My uncle is worried since he retired from GM 5 years ago... If GM were to go out of business... his retirement package is done. They have no way of supporting benefits/pay for the rest of his life.

I know it is a terrible situation but you have to feel for the 10,000+ people who rely on retirement packages, and the 100,000 people they currently employee worldwide.


Senior Member
I can't find anything anywhere that says the details on the job loses either. One report said 10,000 salary, 37,000 hourly. It could be alot of these are still buyouts, basically GM/Chrystler gives them a year of pay to leave. If thats the case so what, they are killing the UAW.


Senior Member
First off, call an Article V Convention (it's never been allowed since the Federal government is terrified of the possible loss of power that could result).

Second, from that convention, amend the constitution to enact lifetime term limits on all government appointments, all the way from Forest Preserve Commissioner to the President. Served as a congressman for X years? Thanks for your service, but you're done and can never be one or be involved in the process again. That means lobbying is out. This ensures turnover in government and prevents lifetime politicians for personal gain.

Third, amend Article III, section III of the Constitution (Treason) to include illegally tampering with the voting process of any level of Federal or State government. Hacked a Diebold machine? Death penalty. This ensures that elected officials truly are elected.

Fourth, incorporate the Second Amendment at the state level (this appears to be a work in progress). An inalienable right isn't very inalienable when it can be taken away by a state. This ensures that the people can protect themselves from an overbearing government.

Then you can start work on everything else.
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Member of the 20 nut club
Well I never expected that once the bill passes that everything would instantly work out overnight. I give it two years.

two years???

we just gave GM 13.4 BILLION DOLLARS a few months ago... they have already pissed through it and are now demanding another 16.6 BILLION DOLLARS...
where do we draw the line??? is $30Billion the max?? how bout $60B??? maybe $300B???

and in spite of all of this money that we are pumping into them they are still cutting jobs by the thousands
and maybe they are just doing some house cleaning that should have been done a long time ago?? i dont know... but 50,000+ people are lined up to lose their jobs right now in spite of the billions in bail out bucks