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Calesta · 09-16-2003, 08:22 PM

Hey guys, here are the dyno charts you've been waiting for... but first a little intro material. The engine build this time is a high 11 to low 12 point compression setup (not 100% sure what it really is). Bore is 85mm and stroke is 89mm. The sleeve is by Golden Eagle, and the rest of the block hardware (oil squirters, oil cooler, factory catch can, girdle) is standard GSR stuff. The pistons are strutted high wrist pin units by Endyn, and the rods are custom length units from Eagle. The head is 100% stock right now, except for a pair of Skunk2 cam gears that are set at zero. More on that later.

Dyno charts are 600x450, and are clickable for 800x600 images in a new window.

This first dyno chart shows the engine trimmed in on a Hondata S200 system. The blue lines are from a base map pulled from a previous customer's high compression B20/VTEC build. The red lines are my engine. The power peaks at around 7000rpm, which is lower than my previous B20/VTEC build. That's a good thing. The torque curve is higher and flatter as well, and falls off slower past the peak than the last build also.

This second chart shows what happens when you start playing with the cam timing. Just by changing a few degrees, you shift the entire power curve. We weren't showing any improvements over the entire rev range, but playing with the intake cam timing WAS able to give a 7hp increase in all revs below VTEC. At the same time, it killed power above VTEC. We were not able to get any favorable results with rough cam tuning, so timing was left at zero for both the intake and exhaust. The cam timing will get played with again when new camshafts go into the engine.

Just FYI, I think the intake timing was retarded a 2-3 degrees between the two power curves shown above.

We made one more run later that night with everything set back to normal, and the output was:

185hp / 152lbft at the wheels

Those are the numbers I'm sticking to. Enjoy.

Calesta · 09-16-2003, 08:32 PM

For comparison's sake, I took my old dyno chart from the old engine build (2 years ago) and stretched it out until the scale roughly matched the new charts:

One more... I popped open Paint Shop Pro and started fiddling around...

The green lines are from my old B20/VTEC graph. I thought this was pretty interesting... you can clearly see how my new GSR engine build is superior to the old B20/VTEC engine setup from the torque and power curves. The low end is much stronger, and everything from VTEC to 7000rpm looks much better. The really interesting thing here is how both the new and old engine build's power and torque curves are virtually identical beyond 7000rpm.

This leads me to believe that the B16 head just can't flow past 185whp in stock form under a naturally aspirated engine build. I didn't make my 200whp target, but I'm pretty sure I'll get close to my ultimate goal once I start playing with the head. 250whp is the target- we'll see if I can nail it.

E_SolSi · 09-16-2003, 08:48 PM

looks good .... nice Tq

b16ahatch · 09-16-2003, 08:50 PM

nice numbers. what motor is it and are you n/a?

E_SolSi · 09-16-2003, 08:52 PM

dont just look at the pictures

READ THE DAMN POST!!!!!!!!!!

his entire setup is completly spelled out right there in front of you

b16ahatch · 09-16-2003, 08:55 PM

whoops... i feel stupid sorry for the dumb question

SleEPeR_CRX · 09-16-2003, 08:57 PM

nice mang, cant wait to see what it will pull with some cams in there, and some nice 1/4 mile times.

Calesta · 09-16-2003, 09:00 PM

Thanks guys! Take a look at the last chart... it's the real eye-opener. The new engine build is on a Hondata setup, while the old B20 was on a VAFC. Both were tuned to maximum power across the rev range while maintaining as constant an a/f ratio as possible.

B16 · 09-16-2003, 11:11 PM

damn, that thing is torquey, my B16 is jealous

good numbers meng
that is on stock cams correct? if so, i'd like to see they dyno after headwork, damn!!

Calesta · 09-17-2003, 04:30 AM

Yup, stock cams, stock cam timing, stock unmodified head casting, stock valvetrain, stock intake manifold... there's a lot left in the engine.

Frankie P. · 09-17-2003, 10:58 AM

Also, if I may add Calesta, is his engine is runs extremely smooth up to redline. No jerks or power stall, if that made any sense, it also doen't show how sweet his handles are, best handling I have ever ridden in, better than my buddies 2001 Cobra. Very sweet ride.

gocivicls · 09-17-2003, 11:44 AM

Must be nice! Awesome build up, keep us informed on the charts after cams/headwork, etc.

saturn_boy96 · 09-17-2003, 12:16 PM

<----------Jealous of having more than 150ft/lbs of torque...

sohcslammer · 09-17-2003, 12:45 PM

Nice graphs cal, do you have any thoughts on what cams you are leaning to? Toda spec Cs?

Keep us updated!

Calesta · 09-17-2003, 01:06 PM

Thanks Frankie!

Cams- I don't know yet. I'm doing as much reading as I can. Skunk2 Stage2 and the Jun Type3 come pretty highly recommended from Intercrew, but Phillip builds cars mostly for straight line performance. I would like to get the same high end output as the Skunk2 and Jun cams so I can come as close as possible to hitting my 250whp goal, but I want more midrange too. I'm thinking about the Toda Spec Cs, but we'll see. For the price that Toda wants, I might get some custom Skunk2s or something, ground close to Todas specs.

DarkHand · 09-17-2003, 05:07 PM

Awsome Calesta.

I've finally started saving funds for my swap, and the question on my mind is price.

If you don't mind me asking, how much have you paid so far?

Calesta · 09-17-2003, 05:55 PM

Hmm... that's difficult to say. I've spent so much in so many different places that I really don't know how much is in this engine anymore. My first swap was $6000 installed, plus a few options- you could probably come up with something similar to my build for not much more.

lsvtec · 09-17-2003, 06:00 PM

Those are some really impressive numbers, especially with a stock head and cams. I can't wait to see the numbers you start putting out with a modified head.

Calesta · 09-17-2003, 06:14 PM

Yah... me too!

Must get money first.

Frankie P. · 09-17-2003, 06:35 PM

I say if you can swing it, go with the Toda C. I am kinda biased towards Toda, mainly because of the awesome performance on the RSX-S. They might be expensive, but they are very high quality, but hey it's your build. Keep me informed Mike, not just by words, if you know what I mean.

Calesta · 09-17-2003, 06:50 PM

I'll keep you covered man- I should be in Austin for at least a few more years.

h82w8 · 09-17-2003, 09:04 PM

that 6000 ballpark est. does that Include the 1000 dollar tiens? :P

09-16-2003, 08:22 PM	#1
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Lufkin, TX Age: 31 Posts: 23,883 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 265	Hey guys, here are the dyno charts you've been waiting for... but first a little intro material. The engine build this time is a high 11 to low 12 point compression setup (not 100% sure what it really is). Bore is 85mm and stroke is 89mm. The sleeve is by Golden Eagle, and the rest of the block hardware (oil squirters, oil cooler, factory catch can, girdle) is standard GSR stuff. The pistons are strutted high wrist pin units by Endyn, and the rods are custom length units from Eagle. The head is 100% stock right now, except for a pair of Skunk2 cam gears that are set at zero. More on that later. Dyno charts are 600x450, and are clickable for 800x600 images in a new window. This first dyno chart shows the engine trimmed in on a Hondata S200 system. The blue lines are from a base map pulled from a previous customer's high compression B20/VTEC build. The red lines are my engine. The power peaks at around 7000rpm, which is lower than my previous B20/VTEC build. That's a good thing. The torque curve is higher and flatter as well, and falls off slower past the peak than the last build also. This second chart shows what happens when you start playing with the cam timing. Just by changing a few degrees, you shift the entire power curve. We weren't showing any improvements over the entire rev range, but playing with the intake cam timing WAS able to give a 7hp increase in all revs below VTEC. At the same time, it killed power above VTEC. We were not able to get any favorable results with rough cam tuning, so timing was left at zero for both the intake and exhaust. The cam timing will get played with again when new camshafts go into the engine. Just FYI, I think the intake timing was retarded a 2-3 degrees between the two power curves shown above. We made one more run later that night with everything set back to normal, and the output was: 185hp / 152lbft at the wheels Those are the numbers I'm sticking to. Enjoy. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

09-16-2003, 08:32 PM	#2
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Lufkin, TX Age: 31 Posts: 23,883 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 265	For comparison's sake, I took my old dyno chart from the old engine build (2 years ago) and stretched it out until the scale roughly matched the new charts: One more... I popped open Paint Shop Pro and started fiddling around... The green lines are from my old B20/VTEC graph. I thought this was pretty interesting... you can clearly see how my new GSR engine build is superior to the old B20/VTEC engine setup from the torque and power curves. The low end is much stronger, and everything from VTEC to 7000rpm looks much better. The really interesting thing here is how both the new and old engine build's power and torque curves are virtually identical beyond 7000rpm. This leads me to believe that the B16 head just can't flow past 185whp in stock form under a naturally aspirated engine build. I didn't make my 200whp target, but I'm pretty sure I'll get close to my ultimate goal once I start playing with the head. 250whp is the target- we'll see if I can nail it. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

09-16-2003, 08:50 PM	#4
b16ahatch Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 282 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 15	nice numbers. what motor is it and are you n/a? __________________ 94 cx hatchback mods exterior- si wheels rapped in falken azenis, carbon fiber hood, carbon fiber wing, projector head lights, si paint job and m3 mirrors under the hood - b16 sir2 swap, clucth masters stage 3 clutch,act lightend flywheel, eagle rods, arias pistons, darton sleeves, rc 370cc injectors, msd plug wires,jackson racing fuel pump, apexi avcr and vafc, thrermal 3 inch turbo exhaust, 3 inch down pipe, auto tecknic fuel rail, b and m fuel pressure regulator,aem cam gears, turbonetics t3/t4e turbo, spearco fron mount intercooler, greedy type s b.o.v, future mods- crane 2 step rev limiter igniton system, pnp head, crower valve train, and a apexi power fc.

09-16-2003, 08:55 PM	#6
b16ahatch Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 282 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 15	whoops... i feel stupid sorry for the dumb question __________________ 94 cx hatchback mods exterior- si wheels rapped in falken azenis, carbon fiber hood, carbon fiber wing, projector head lights, si paint job and m3 mirrors under the hood - b16 sir2 swap, clucth masters stage 3 clutch,act lightend flywheel, eagle rods, arias pistons, darton sleeves, rc 370cc injectors, msd plug wires,jackson racing fuel pump, apexi avcr and vafc, thrermal 3 inch turbo exhaust, 3 inch down pipe, auto tecknic fuel rail, b and m fuel pressure regulator,aem cam gears, turbonetics t3/t4e turbo, spearco fron mount intercooler, greedy type s b.o.v, future mods- crane 2 step rev limiter igniton system, pnp head, crower valve train, and a apexi power fc.

09-16-2003, 08:57 PM	#7
SleEPeR_CRX Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver B.C. canada Posts: 1,227 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 24	nice mang, cant wait to see what it will pull with some cams in there, and some nice 1/4 mile times. __________________ Sleepers Are the Only way to Go. 1990 CRX Si B18a(92) CAI/E, Gutted, ACT clutch/pressure plate/13lb flywheel, Crower 403 Cams, Titanium Valve springs & Retainers, Blockguard, Head Milled 20 thou, 9.8:1 Compression, AEM cam gears. 1/4 = 14.73 60' = 2.48 trap = 95.03mph Soon to get: Header, Slicks Future 13 second all motor LS!


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09-16-2003, 09:00 PM	#8
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Lufkin, TX Age: 31 Posts: 23,883 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 265	Thanks guys! Take a look at the last chart... it's the real eye-opener. The new engine build is on a Hondata setup, while the old B20 was on a VAFC. Both were tuned to maximum power across the rev range while maintaining as constant an a/f ratio as possible. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

09-16-2003, 11:11 PM	#9
B16 Super Moderator Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: yay area, CA Age: 30 Posts: 6,730 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 99	damn, that thing is torquey, my B16 is jealous good numbers meng that is on stock cams correct? if so, i'd like to see they dyno after headwork, damn!! __________________ 2005 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 8 2004 BMW 325i 2000 Mercedes Benz ML 430 1994 Honda Civic Del Sol VTEC (race kaa)

09-17-2003, 04:30 AM	#10
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Lufkin, TX Age: 31 Posts: 23,883 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 265	Yup, stock cams, stock cam timing, stock unmodified head casting, stock valvetrain, stock intake manifold... there's a lot left in the engine. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

09-17-2003, 10:58 AM	#11
Frankie P. Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Austin, TX. Posts: 1,630 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 27	Also, if I may add Calesta, is his engine is runs extremely smooth up to redline. No jerks or power stall, if that made any sense, it also doen't show how sweet his handles are, best handling I have ever ridden in, better than my buddies 2001 Cobra. Very sweet ride.

09-17-2003, 11:44 AM	#12
gocivicls Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: forest city, NC Posts: 266 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 14	Must be nice! Awesome build up, keep us informed on the charts after cams/headwork, etc. __________________ <span style=\'color:red\'>14.2:1 CR LS with 405A's and working out the bugs</span> <u>Fastest 60ft</u> 1.78 <u>Best ET on 1/8th</u> 8.42 <u>Fastest MPH</u> 82.23 mph All Motor LS (B18B) <span style=\'color:green\'>Hasn't been tuned yet!</span>

09-17-2003, 12:16 PM	#13
saturn_boy96 88 C1V1C 53D4N DR1V3R Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sheridan, WY Age: 26 Posts: 1,507 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2006 Suzuki Aerio Rep Power: 29	<----------Jealous of having more than 150ft/lbs of torque...

09-17-2003, 12:45 PM	#14
sohcslammer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,193 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 33	Nice graphs cal, do you have any thoughts on what cams you are leaning to? Toda spec Cs? Keep us updated! __________________ Latest project - 1 fucking fast 99 SI

09-17-2003, 01:06 PM	#15
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Lufkin, TX Age: 31 Posts: 23,883 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 265	Thanks Frankie! Cams- I don't know yet. I'm doing as much reading as I can. Skunk2 Stage2 and the Jun Type3 come pretty highly recommended from Intercrew, but Phillip builds cars mostly for straight line performance. I would like to get the same high end output as the Skunk2 and Jun cams so I can come as close as possible to hitting my 250whp goal, but I want more midrange too. I'm thinking about the Toda Spec Cs, but we'll see. For the price that Toda wants, I might get some custom Skunk2s or something, ground close to Todas specs. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

09-17-2003, 05:55 PM	#17
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Lufkin, TX Age: 31 Posts: 23,883 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 265	Hmm... that's difficult to say. I've spent so much in so many different places that I really don't know how much is in this engine anymore. My first swap was $6000 installed, plus a few options- you could probably come up with something similar to my build for not much more. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

09-17-2003, 09:04 PM	#22
h82w8 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: orlando,florida Posts: 334 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 16	that 6000 ballpark est. does that Include the 1000 dollar tiens? :P __________________ 1990 white crx dx immaculate shell... waiting 1995 black del sol VTEC,jdm B16A, black 15" rota slips, BFG g-force ta kdw's, kyb agx's, eibach pro-kit, tanabe strut bars, tanabe hyper medallion, dc header in 1962 honda launched their famous ad campaign: "you always meet the nicest people on hondas" ...chirp <span style=\"color:#3333FF\">WTB</span> gsr head , ls block, or b20 block.

09-17-2003, 09:22 PM	#23

09-17-2003, 06:00 PM	#18
lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Greater Portland, OR Posts: 5,497 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: The Cheapest Road Bicycle I could get Rep Power: 67	Those are some really impressive numbers, especially with a stock head and cams. I can't wait to see the numbers you start putting out with a modified head. __________________ v3sw7+9Chw6ln3pr7Ock4ma9w3TXm3l7GDF i7Ce6+8t4MNb8Oen6g6RAOa26s5MRp6 hackerkey.com

09-17-2003, 06:14 PM	#19
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Lufkin, TX Age: 31 Posts: 23,883 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 265	Yah... me too! Must get money first. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

09-17-2003, 06:35 PM	#20
Frankie P. Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Austin, TX. Posts: 1,630 iTrader: 0 / 0% Rep Power: 27	I say if you can swing it, go with the Toda C. I am kinda biased towards Toda, mainly because of the awesome performance on the RSX-S. They might be expensive, but they are very high quality, but hey it's your build. Keep me informed Mike, not just by words, if you know what I mean.

09-17-2003, 06:50 PM	#21
Calesta Admin with a big stick Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Lufkin, TX Age: 31 Posts: 23,883 iTrader: 0 / 0% Ride: 2003 S2000 Rep Power: 265	I'll keep you covered man- I should be in Austin for at least a few more years. __________________ DO NOT PM me with tech questions! Use the forums! Intercrew Auto Salon - (972) 485-8688

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Dyno chart for my new engine build