Ok i plan to buy a 90 civic i want to make it fast i know people proably posted this a thousands times but help me out! ok what engine does the 90 si have? What would be the cheapest and easiest motor swap and where do i buy or should i buy a turbo or supercharger? i know u can go from 90 hp stock to like 160 hp with motor swap how much is motor swaps and when u buy a motor does it come with everthing i need? such as ecu, and wiring etc... also what kind of gains from just a motor swap thank u ANY Info would be greatly apperciated
1990 Civic Si
- Thread starter coastie
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Ok i plan to buy a 90 civic i want to make it fast i know people proably posted this a thousands times but help me out! ok what engine does the 90 si have? What would be the cheapest and easiest motor swap and where do i buy or should i buy a turbo or supercharger? i know u can go from 90 hp stock to like 160 hp with motor swap how much is motor swaps and when u buy a motor does it come with everthing i need? such as ecu, and wiring etc... also what kind of gains from just a motor swap thank u ANY Info would be greatly apperciatedthe 4th generation ('88-'91) honda civic si comes stock with the d16a6 engine. it has 108 hp @ 6,000 rpm and 100 ft. lbs. of torque @ 5,000 rpm. IMO the 4th gen. civic/2nd gen. crx is a great platform to start out with. there are a few low cost engine swaps that offer great power gains. the cheapest, easiest and probably most common engine swap into those cars is the DOHC ZC swap. the DOHC ZC came out of 4th gen JDM civic si's and 2nd gen JDM crx si's. the DOHC ZC has 129 hp @ 6,800 rpm and 106 ft. lbs. of torque @ 5,700 rpm. the DOHC ZC is a very easy swap because it bolts right into your car with the stock mounts, no real wiring (unless you have to convert to MPFI which is not the case with the civic si) and it allows you to use your stock tranny (unless you have a '88, in that case you have to upgrade to a '89-'91 tranny), the si tranny is geared the best for performance. then next two swaps that are very common in the 4th gen civics are the ls (b18a) and b16a SiR swaps. both of those engines require a new b-series tranny and aftermarket engine mounts. the ls (b18a) has 130 hp @ 6,000 rpm and 121 ft. lbs. of torque @ 5,000 rpm. at 9.2:1 compression, the LS is VERY boost friendly and is the better choice if boost is in your future. the b16a SiR has 160 hp @ 7,600 rpm and 111 ft. lbs. of torque @ 7,000 rpm. the LS is a 1.8L engine and the b16a is a 1.6L engine. because of the extra .2L of displacement the LS has a slight advantage over the b16 in the torque department. the b16 is more of a "performance" engine and has a much higher redline than the LS and has quite a bit more peak hp. with the b16 swap, you will need to run a few wires from under the hood to the ecu in the ecu in the cabin to enable vtec. how complete your swap is will depend on where you get your engine from. most engine resalers have "complete changeover" packages which include just about everything you will need to swap an engine. i suggest you check out http://www.hmotorsonline.com/ which has complete swaps and very competitive pricing. if you are near a sea port, check out http://www.flashoptions.com/ they have very good pricing (most of their front clips are about the same price as other companys swaps) the only downside is that they only ship "to a port near you" and from there you have to arrange the transportation. there is one more swap that i might as well mention, it is the ls/vtec. it is pretty much a combo of the b16 and LS. it involves using the LS block with the b16 head and ecu. that way you get the power up top from the vtec of the b16 as well as the LS' displacement. it is not just a stright swap though, and i wouldn't recomend doing it as your first project. if i were you, i'd swap in a b16 and mayber later down the line, get a ls shortblock and do a ls/vtec conversion. the zc is a good swap if that's all your looking for, if you just want to swap an engine and be done with it. but if you want to keep improving, the b16 is the swap for you. just post up any more questions that you may have and i'm sure they'll be answered. good luck.
MaaseyRacer
Senior Member
wow, kyle nice write up, that should be in the FAQ or something...
Originally posted by coastie+May 29 2003, 05:06 PM-->yes, with any b-series swap, you will need to change the tranny along with the engine. if you plan on goin' turbo in the future, i really suggest that you get the LS (b18a) over the b16. the lower compression and extra displacement really becomes an advantage when turbo comes into the situation. for a good bolt on turbo kit for the LS, i suggest you get the maxrev b-series turbo kit with hondata 200b from ks-motorsports.com for $2,870. the hondata system will allow you to properly tune your fuel maps according to boost. that kit is a very good deal and the only other things that would be nessicary to run it are some higher flowing fuel injectors (550cc or so), a 3" exhaust and maybe an upgraded fuel pump. with the LS, that turbo kit and proper tuning, you should be able to run 10psi off the t3/t4oe turbo included in the kit. 1/4 mile times are dependent on soooo many factors it is really difficult to tell you what time you will run with what swap. i would guestimate that with the b16 you could be in the 14's and in the 12's with the LS/turbo route. hope this helps. let me know if you want any more detail on anything i've went over.Thank you for all knowledge u sound like u know what ur talking about..with the b16 i need to put in a tranny to right? do u know 1/4 mile times would be with 160 HP.. and if i get a turbo should i do all that before the swap what turbo should i get thanks.
MaaseyRacer@May 29 2003, 05:25 PM
wow, kyle nice write up, that should be in the FAQ or something...
thanks
.
Originally posted by kylemarhx+May 29 2003, 09:57 PM-->
a stock b16 would own a stock ls in a drag race..
Yeah but a turbo LS would destroy a turbo b16 in any situation.
Originally posted by dveit+May 29 2003, 10:28 PM-->
a stock b16 would own a stock ls in a drag race.
Yeah but a turbo LS would destroy a turbo b16 in any situation.
that's wrong in soo many ways. there is no way you can say in "any situation" the ls would win.
did you read the thread? i alredy told him that he should get an ls if he plans to boost in the future.
your last post was worthless y0.
very nicely put kyle...but i'd have to disagree on the ls boost thing...it is niether better or worse to boost an ls...it is in fact cheaper since you won't need low comp pistons right away...the tranny on the other hand is better for boost...but if your only going to boost like 7 lbs...than a b16 tranny would be better...any more than 10lbs, i would suggest the ls tranny...some people feel different tho
7 psi on what? 10 psi on what? psi has nothing to do with power... and hardly has anything to do with how much boost you're running. 10 psi of a t25 and 10 psi off a t61 are two totally different amounts of boost. on one, you'll be making 200 hp, and on the other you'll be makin' 500 hp. you can't say which tranny is best according to boost pressure.
true...but most people understand it better when you compare psi...should i compare CFM's then?? then in an example i will use a certain turbo
i'd also like to add the fact that your post concerning my post made me feel stupid lol but it's coo...you learn more and more everyday right
Originally posted by B16RacerN2NR+May 30 2003, 09:19 PM-->i agree that people can understand psi more easily than cfm's. but i think it's just too vague. i would use psi and also name the turbo for rough estimates. for example, just say that the LS can safely handle 7 psi from a t3/t4oe turbo with proper tuning. i'm not trying to tell you how to give advice, just offering my thoughts on it
B16RacerN2NR@May 30 2003, 09:21 PM
i'd also like to add the fact that your post concerning my post made me feel stupid lol but it's coo...you learn more and more everyday right
i'm sorry man, i'm not trying to insult, put down make anybody feel "stupid". i've just put some time into answering the questions in this thread the best i can, and keeping it factual. now i'm not saying that i know everything or anything close to it. i'm still just learning and a lot of the stuff i have said is opinion and i'm also bias on a couple topics. so yeah... please don't get your feelings hurt
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it's coo man...i don't take things like that to heart...some people just don't know how to take honest critizism (if i spelled that right)...it's nice to know you were coo about it
Civic_88ls
Senior Member
Originally posted by kylemarhx+May 29 2003, 09:57 PM-->
a stock b16 would own a stock ls in a drag race.
i dont know dude, i owned a couple of crx's with b16's in them with my ls in my hb. no mods to it.
djextremity
Senior Member
kyle, EXCELLENT writeup. =]
Civic88_ls, you've beaten those rexes at a 1/4 mile dragstrip with a christmas tree at the start and with similar driving ability to you on the same tires, suspension, brand of clutch, wheels, driver weight, amount of stuff in the car, car type........
What I'm trying to say is that a shunt of undetermined distance is hardly a way to judge which engine is faster; even a trip down the quarter mile is not very good. Cold hard numbers are the only real way to measure.
Civic88_ls, you've beaten those rexes at a 1/4 mile dragstrip with a christmas tree at the start and with similar driving ability to you on the same tires, suspension, brand of clutch, wheels, driver weight, amount of stuff in the car, car type........
What I'm trying to say is that a shunt of undetermined distance is hardly a way to judge which engine is faster; even a trip down the quarter mile is not very good. Cold hard numbers are the only real way to measure.
Civic_88ls
Senior Member
i beat them , one, getting on to the freeway and the other one from a stoplight to about 60. none at the strip. im not saying that all b18's r faster then b16's. its just that b16's arent nothin special.
djextremity
Senior Member
Well that makes it a lot more clear. Getting onto the freeway or going to 60 leaves about a fourth of the quarter-mile left over, and that's where the B16 really shines. Now don't get me wrong, I'd rather have the LS too, just because I DON'T race at the track; I just like to feel my ass planted in the seat; but the B16 makes all of its power high in the powerband, and those high speeds are where the B16 will take off.