96 civic swap

[dosterschill]

i currently own a 1996 honda civic dx with over 160,000 miles. i would very much like to swap the engine out for something with a little more pickup: preferably either a ls/vtec, a b20/vtec, or a h22a. i understand the power limitations and the swap complications each engine holds, but im ignorant of the financial implications (probably the most important factor of the three). my question is this: what are the costs of each? and do the costs outweigh the rewards? thank you very much.



derek

 

[dosterschill]

please; just some direction? thanks

derek

 

[TPR]

Originally posted by dosterschill@May 9 2004, 03:00 AM
please; just some direction? thanks

derek

1st thing convert to obd1

h22a nice rewards... but pricey.
b18c1 sucks unless the engine can breath..
b16 dont bother their over over rated..

we do these swaps for a living so if you want a shop owners suggestion
do a b18c then put some $$ into it.

 

[smooth_criminal]

if you convert to OBD1 you will not be legal !!! Just an FYI

Any cr/vtec or ls/vtec will cost more then a straight swap if your not doing the work yourself. The first question you need to ask yourself is how much power do you want 150,200, 300, +"???? This will be the deciding factor. I also have a 96 civic and just bought a 99LS motor and a 00 GSR tranny. Hopefully i'll have ti in the car by the first week of july. In total i've spend $1400 for motor,tranny,axles,linkage and the ECU. I'll still need mounts and a few other odds and ends. So my final total will be around 2 grand.

 

[smooth_criminal]

Originally posted by TPR+May 12 2004, 01:02 PM-->

dosterschill

@May 9 2004, 03:00 AM
please; just some direction? thanks

derek

1st thing convert to obd1

h22a nice rewards... but pricey.
b18c1 sucks unless the engine can breath..
b16 dont bother their over over rated..

we do these swaps for a living so if you want a shop owners suggestion
do a b18c then put some $$ into it.

Dude you say you own a shop, but you suggest him to do an illegal swap!!

Please remind me to never go to your shop, What kind of fucked up place are you running. I could see if this was only going to be a track car then that would be a great suggestion but for a car that needs to be inspected and be legal give me a break.

 

[TPR]

Originally posted by smooth_criminal+May 12 2004, 02:21 PM-->

Originally posted by TPR@May 12 2004, 01:02 PM
dosterschill

@May 9 2004, 03:00 AM
please; just some direction? thanks

derek

1st thing convert to obd1

h22a nice rewards... but pricey.
b18c1 sucks unless the engine can breath..
b16 dont bother their over over rated..

we do these swaps for a living so if you want a shop owners suggestion
do a b18c then put some $$ into it.

Dude you say you own a shop, but you suggest him to do an illegal swap!!

Please remind me to never go to your shop, What kind of fucked up place are you running. I could see if this was only going to be a track car then that would be a great suggestion but for a car that needs to be inspected and be legal give me a break.

WELL WHERE WERE AT IT DOESNT MATTER

BESIDES HOW IS A SKUNK 2 JUMPER HARNESS "ILLEGAL" WHERE YOUR AT?

NOT FLAMING JUST WONDERING?

 

[smooth_criminal]

Originally posted by TPR+May 13 2004, 09:16 AM-->

Originally posted by smooth_criminal@May 12 2004, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by TPR@May 12 2004, 01:02 PM
dosterschill

@May 9 2004, 03:00 AM
please; just some direction? thanks

derek

1st thing convert to obd1

h22a nice rewards... but pricey.
b18c1 sucks unless the engine can breath..
b16 dont bother their over over rated..

we do these swaps for a living so if you want a shop owners suggestion
do a b18c then put some $$ into it.

Dude you say you own a shop, but you suggest him to do an illegal swap!!

Please remind me to never go to your shop, What kind of fucked up place are you running. I could see if this was only going to be a track car then that would be a great suggestion but for a car that needs to be inspected and be legal give me a break.

WELL WHERE WERE AT IT DOESNT MATTER

BESIDES HOW IS A SKUNK 2 JUMPER HARNESS "ILLEGAL" WHERE YOUR AT?

NOT FLAMING JUST WONDERING?

Federal law states that you can not put a motor in a car that is olded then the chassis. This means you can not put an OBD1 motor in and OBD2 Chassis. Now if you are talking about using a jumper to convert a OBD2 motor to runn off of a OBD1 ECU thats a differant situation. But still it's not legal. The reason it's not legal is because you are not utilizing (sp) the extra o2 and other sensors in the OBD2 set up. The jumper will just by pass these so it will work nd there feed back to the ECU is discarded and not used when mapping fuel,air and emmisions.In most places it will never be noticed and you will never have a problem with it. But is some cases mostley in cali, But i've gone though it in New Jersey if they hook up and OBD tester to the car your in for a very very heafty fine. And it is a federal offence just like rolling back your milage.

Also i didn't mean to come off like a dick in the first post. Just wanted to make sure the kid got the facts.

 

[Incredib1e]

He's not saying you have to put an OBD1 motor in there. All he is sayin is convert it to OBD1.. There is nothing illegal about that. Having an OBD2 motor converted to OBD1 is a smart thing to do, lots less restrictions.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by Incredib1e+May 13 2004, 04:33 PM-->

He's not saying you have to put an OBD1 motor in there. All he is sayin is convert it to OBD1.. There is nothing illegal about that. Having an OBD2 motor converted to OBD1 is a smart thing to do, lots less restrictions.

Actually, yes, it is illegal because you have to match the ECU, and OBD I ECU and motor in an OBD II car falls into the same catagory.

But honestly I don't know where this TPR guy comes up with this bullshit...

TPR
h22a nice rewards... but pricey.
b18c1 sucks unless the engine can breath..
b16 dont bother their over over rated..

What a load of shit. B16A is a damn good motor and for the price, the performance is HARD to beat, and responds very well to mods, H22A swap cost about as much as a good B18C1 swap, and the GSR motor is a great motor for a swap, what the hell are you talking about if it can breathe? And brush up on the grammar, for an adult "shop owner" AKA business man, yours sucks.

 

[smooth_criminal]

Originally posted by Incredib1e@May 13 2004, 10:33 AM
He's not saying you have to put an OBD1 motor in there. All he is sayin is convert it to OBD1.. There is nothing illegal about that. Having an OBD2 motor converted to OBD1 is a smart thing to do, lots less restrictions.

what ever dude, Yes it's less restictive but don't fool yourself it is illegal you don't have to believe me i don't care, Go look it up, I never thought it was illegal unitl i took a friends car to DMV and it was OBD tested and walked out with a $1500 fine.

 

[dosterschill]

thanks for the suggestions, however, im not too worried about being carb legal, as long as it doesnt become rediculous. so, IS the h22a worth the extra trouble, or is the b18c a better idea? i am willing to spend a little more time for the extra potential and hp. thanks.


derek

 

[xaero]

b20 = vtec head = a lot of torque

 

[katman]

Originally posted by smooth_criminal+May 13 2004, 11:24 AM-->

Incredib1e

@May 13 2004, 10:33 AM
He's not saying you have to put an OBD1 motor in there. All he is sayin is convert it to OBD1.. There is nothing illegal about that. Having an OBD2 motor converted to OBD1 is a smart thing to do, lots less restrictions.

what ever dude, Yes it's less restictive but don't fool yourself it is illegal you don't have to believe me i don't care, Go look it up, I never thought it was illegal unitl i took a friends car to DMV and it was OBD tested and walked out with a $1500 fine.

LOL...


Bottomline fact is...
if you plan to make your car 'smog legal' or "bar'd" you have to abide by the engine swapping rules:

- engine + ecu has to be of US spec (in some areas this can vary)
- engine + ecu + OBD type needs to either match the year of the car the motor is being put into, or if the motor+ecu is newer than the vehicle, the vehicle must have its smog equipment & OBD type change to the respective smog & OBD type the motor carries with it. (ie. OBD2a US engine + ecu in OBD1 vehicle; OBD1 vehicle must be converted to OBD2a US spec and smog equipment)

otherwise...

you keep your original engine and put it back in when it comes time to smogging your car or you have some kind of illegal smog hook up.

 

[dosterschill]

its my understanding that you need quite a bit more expertise in order to build and maintain an ls/vtec, and that reliability is a factor with this kind of setup... maybe this is not true? thanks


derek

 

[xaero]

b20 or ls vtec have more torque than b18c5 if they are build right

 

[spydy43]

From what you are getting at you just want some cost estimates on what a total swap will run for the various engines. I have been going through the same decisions as you because I am planning on doing a swap on a 96 civic. If cost is a factor the cheapest swap to do is the B16A2 it will get you about 30-40 extra HP when all is said and done it will cost about $4500 (motor,tranny,ecu,parts,labor) unless you are doing the work your self. The Complete swap for a B20C1 runs about $5500+ and can get you about 50-60 HP more than what you have now and still keeps everything in your car pretty functional. The H22 is a cheap to get but the extra parts, and work needed can raise the price in excess of $5000 for the total swap and you lose your A/C and powersteering. If you want those you either have to pay extra or do fabrication work yourself to get them to fit. As far as the B20/Vtec and the LS/Vtec I have seen the motors are pretty cheap but I would assume that the work to get the Vtec working can get pretty pricey. It all depends on what you want out of your engine and if you plan on doing more to it in the future. So if its cheap that you want I would go for a B16A2. Hope this info helps, this is what I have found as far as prices in Albuquerque NM.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by spydy43@Jun 2 2004, 10:25 PM
If cost is a factor the cheapest swap to do is the B16A2 it will get you about 30-40 extra HP when all is said and done it will cost about $4500 (motor,tranny,ecu,parts,labor) unless you are doing the work your self.

$4500? That's insane.

 

[spydy43]

Originally posted by 92b16vx+Jun 3 2004, 12:14 AM-->

spydy43

@Jun 2 2004, 10:25 PM
If cost is a factor the cheapest swap to do is the B16A2 it will get you about 30-40 extra HP when all is said and done it will cost about $4500 (motor,tranny,ecu,parts,labor) unless you are doing the work your self.

$4500? That's insane.

The 4500 includes the motor+tranny+ecu($2250), all necessary parts(wiring harness, mounts etc $400+), labor ($800), a good header ($225), clutch($325), intake($150) and room for anything unexpected($?).

 

[chb504]

hmotors has a complete change over that's $2250....... that includes the header, clutch, ecu....basiclly everything u need to do the swap....

 

[dosterschill]

thanks fellas for the tips and pricings. good luck with your swap spdy.


derek