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All-motor or turbo? it's time to build up one

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by cashen, Jun 19, 2006.

  1. cashen

    cashen Junior Member

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    I have a 88 CRX with a B16 bottom end and GSR head swapped in. It has a really nice 4-2-1 header, intake, ITR cams, skunk2 intake manifold, and upgraded FPR. I'm not sure if I should go all motor or do turbo, all motor is more appealing just because I'd like to go a different route than my friend that has turbo. I was wondering how hard it would be to make a 11-12 second all motor with the setup that I have. I want to switch to
    skunk2 stage 3 cams
    Adjustable cam gears
    valve train upgrade (titanium retainers and such)
    upgraded rods and bolts
    maybe a 50 shot for the strip
    and hondata wideband setup
    don't know what ecu to use yet though

    any advice is welcome
     
  2. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    it won't be hard. you can do that with a big turbo and some good tuning. good tires and lsd and it's easy to do.
     
  3. ripperbone

    ripperbone angry bear

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    it depends on what intake manifold you use, if you use the stock gsr intake then you need a p72 ecu to controll the extra butterflies, if you use a aftermarket like skunk2 or ? then you can use either a p30 or p28 ecu
     
  4. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    If you want to hit 11s all motor, you're going to have to go inside the engine to install higher compression pistons. With a turbo, you should be able do it without opening up the block (stock internals).
     
  5. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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    +1 to cal's remarks. Turbo will make it a bolt on and tune affair. But fast NA cars get more of my respect, and respect in the racing world for that matter. It takes a lot more effort to build a good NA car. Turbo's are awesome, but require little to no effort to get good results. I personally like a challenge, and building the engine is half my fun. So if you like tinkering, doing lots of research, and building your engine piece by piece, do it NA. If you are strictly a driver, and don't care so much about wrenching, bolt on a turbo, tune it, and call it good.
     
  6. cypher

    cypher Faster then you!

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    ive got the same setup
    stock gsr shortblock with b16 head and turbo.
    running high 10s
     
  7. cashen

    cashen Junior Member

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    Mine's opposite, b16 block with GSR head. I'm building a ls1 second gen rx7 so I think I might leave my tinkering for that and just put a turbo on my crx and call it good. With a good dyno tune. I would want a responsive turbo, not one to make a ton of power so which setup do you think would be the most responsive?
     
  8. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    :)

    I would go NA on the S2k, but there's not enough headroom to get significant power gains without getting supremely unreliable, and my power goals are a lot higher this time.

    GT28RS or smaller.
     
  9. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    I think he was talking about the Skunk2 cams for an all motor setup, not turbo. Turbos do like high lift, but not necessarily low duration- overlap is what you want to minimize. If you can get a long duration for more cylinder fill without increasing overlap much, then it's still good. Quite a few cars actually get really good boost numbers on ITR cams.
     
  10. cashen

    cashen Junior Member

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    Out of these cams which would you use for all motor, I don't know how to gauge the overlap so I'm askin' for help on that part. Toda spec B, skunk 2 stage 2, or ITR. I already have the ITR in the car and they don't seem all that impressive.
     
  11. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Just from what I remember off the top of my head, I think the Toda B will make more power. I'm not sure if Toda changed the primary lobes on the B or not, but if they did- those are the ones to get. I was personally going to go for some Wicked or Buddy Club cams on my GSR, but before those were available, Toda Cs were going to be my choice. The Toda primary lobe should be more aggressive than the Skunk2 Stage 2, so you'll have more power before VTEC. Just make sure you have the compression to back it up- and be sure to check to make sure I have the lobe information correct.
     
  12. lsvtec300

    lsvtec300 Junior Member

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    :) i think itr cams are waste of money for $250.00 or more for used cams come on thats stupid i see a lot of peaple use them and they all say it sucks if u want cams go with crower turbo cams and for all motor go with june
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2006
  13. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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    Rocket motorsports m24x ftw!!!

    Jun, Toda, Skunk2, all make nice cams, but rocket cams are amazing and the prices are much more ideal than the big name brand. With the others, you are paying for the name, not necessarily just the quality and performance of the part.
     
  14. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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    Crower makes great products, I almost went with their econo billets before Mike offered me his eagles for a great deal. But staying on topic, I have heard webcams makes decent cams.

    If I were in need of a set of cams right now, I'd either get Rocket Motorsports, Crower, Skunk2, Webcam, or CTR cams, in that order. Toda and Jun aren't on my list because they are cost prohibitive, and Rocket's cams make more power for a much better price.
     
  15. cashen

    cashen Junior Member

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    I think I'm going to go with the Rocket Motorsports cams, I was curious about if later down the road if the RM cams would be okay with a turbo? Going all-motor for right now but you never know what the future brings. Thanks for all the input guys, lots of good info.
     
  16. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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    follow the link in my signature, and check out the cam profiles on there. I think Robert is selling his cams through distributors now, but I'll shoot him an email and see what he recommends for turbo apps, as he is primarily an all motor guy, as am I.

    When you mean you are going all motor right now, with ppossibly going turbo in the future, do you mean you are building a mild engine that is going to be able to take a turbo later, or are you going to actually build an all motor engine and then tear the motor down and rebuild for turbo later on? When I see posts like that, I am wary to give advice, because I have no clue what your goals are.
    When I see "I'm going all motor" I atuomatically think 11+:1 compression, high lift, high duration cam profiles, porting, GOOD induction and exhaust system. Are you building with high compression in mind, or are you just looking for a pick me up while you wait for money to come in so you can build the other half of yoour turbo engine? Because I have two engines: the high compression b18a in my car right now, rocket cams, CP 11.5:1 Piston...etc. Then I have the engine I'm building for a turbo. The two will never see each other except as they wave to each other as I swap one out and the other in. Turbo and All motor are two entirely different camps, and you are going to have to choose what you want, cuz you can't have both. Unless you are an F1 engine, and that's just silly.
     
  17. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Yup. Don't buy aggressive cams for an all motor application and then use them for turbo later. It's just not a good idea.
     
  18. cashen

    cashen Junior Member

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    I'm just going to go all motor with the B16. Then if I decide to go turbo later on when more funds are available I'll either tear it down and build it up for turbo or just get another block and start looking for another chassey. My original plan was to build an all motor monster to run against my friends 88 celica all-track which has the mr2 turbo motor in it. So I'm not going to be like a girl and change my mind every five minutes and continue with that plan. If I try and turn it into a turbo project give me a net-asskicking. I'll save the turbo for when this project is done, along with my ls1 rx7. I always get too many projects going at once and don't have enough money to finish any of them. So if I just do one at a time completing them will be more realistic. In light of that :
    Project 1: All motor B16/GSR CRX goal - 11's ( actually doesn't matter as long as I continue to beat my best friends all-track, we've got a rivalry going for fastest car)
    Project 2: LS1 rx7 gtu differential. goal - 10's ( most likely race only car, gutted w/ slicks) and it's kind of a group project with my friends I just happen to own the car.
    Project 3: So far in the future I have no idea I'll just stick with the two for now.
     
  19. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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    Well, it sound's like you've got solid plans. 11's are definitely possible with all motor, but start doing your homework.
     
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