Alternator/ Battery light???

[Dual-500]

How do you check how many amps the alt. is putting out?

With an ammeter inline with the output on the vehicle, or on a test bench. This is something that is probably beyond what you should attempt.

Another good and simple test for an alternator and battery is a simple one. Turn on headlights with engine idling and then bring up RPM - lights should not brighten up much if any.

 

[flydex28]

With an ammeter inline with the output on the vehicle, or on a test bench. This is something that is probably beyond what you should attempt.

Another good and simple test for an alternator and battery is a simple one. Turn on headlights with engine idling and then bring up RPM - lights should not brighten up much if any.

Hmmm... ok. well I made two new ground wires from the valve cover to the chassis, I also removed the alt and sanded down the bracket so it was bare shiny metal for it to contact. That didnt do anything.

Another funny thing we did the other night was the light was off for quite awhile and when i would tap the alt, the light would come on for a few seconds and then go off.... just the opposite..lol... wtf? now its back to what it was doing previously... its like everyday it does something different.

I think im gonna drive to the honda dealership an hour down the road this friday and see what they say.
I also found a few posts online from people who have had the same exact problem as im having but they never resolved the issue on those forums, so hopefully I can figure this one out and put an answer on here.
Thanks for the help and suggestions...it helps having more than one mind on it.

 

[Dual-500]

You bet - sounds like it's being a real PITA.

I've worked many different types of electrical and electronics over the years. Automotive electrical is unique in and of itself and the way the circuits are overlayed upon one another makes for some real strange interactions at times. Aircraft, home electronics and residential/commercial/industrial wiring are more or less straight forward systems with many common techniques shared - automotive wiring is not and can be a real bitch to work.

Sometimes a problem in another circuit will manifest symptoms elsewhere. I've discovered this with blown fuses before - I don't remember the exact symptoms from that adventure - but, it took a while to find it.

Seems like it had something to do with the dome light.

Lots of car circuits, the dome light for one I can think of, carry power to the device and then open the ground side of the circuit to switch it on and off. It follows in a sense, digital electronics where a signal will be a transition from a logic high to a logic low. Most electrical circuits switch the "hot" and not the ground or neutral side. Out of simplicity and efficiency auto wiring will take a single hot wire to the dome light, then run the ground side from the light to each door and the dome light manual switch - all the switches are connected to a ground source on one side. Assed backwards - but, in this case it's probably the best way do to it as it's the most economical solution. They can grab a ground near any switch - otherwise there would need to be a hot wire ran to each switch in addition to the run from the run from the switch to the device.

Letting a mechanic look at it is probably a good idea. It could be something that might cause you problems down the road and it best to get it corrected.

Many times troubleshooting isn't about finding the problem, but methodically eliminating potential causes wire by wire and part by part and that can take a while and also be expensive.

The ground from the battery to the engine is an important one. Then also the grounding from engine to chassis.

Good luck with it.

 

[flydex28]

The ground from the battery to the engine is an important one. Then also the grounding from engine to chassis.

The ground from the battey to the engine? I just have the negative battery cable that bolts to the chassis.

 

[Dual-500]

The ground from the battey to the engine? I just have the negative battery cable that bolts to the chassis.

Negative and ground are used synonymous with one another by me for automotive circuits - just old school slang really. I suppose "Correctness" would dictate it being a negative when referred to from the battery end and a ground when referring to it from the chassis end. Being, the negative terminal on the battery connects to ground on the chassis.

Nuff o that.

Have another look at it

Here's a picture of my 91 hatch. I will clean up the battery woring one of these weekends, it's good on the positive side, but the negative (ground) side is kinda shoddy looking - still functional. Needs to go up in wire gauge and I'll take care of that when I change it. Also needs the battery hold downs put back on. I have the bracket off to sandblast and re-dip in rubberized coating and just haven't got to it.

Negative terminal of the battery to the chassis to the transmission (engine block). Negative (ground) wires have been marked wth green tape. The large green is one I added and routs to the rear of the car for the stereo system amplifiers. One of these fine days, when I get around to it I'll change the wimpy little stock ground wire to a big dog like the other one. That's the phase of work the car is in now - final wiring cleanup. Yeah I know the fan motor wires are flying through the air and electrical taped to the upper radiator hose. I added that fan after driving it a few weeks on the new engine. Ran warm at times, so I junked the fan that came with the radiator and installed a Hayden 12".

 

[Dual-500]

Its a 92 civic cx, i put the b16sir2 into it. I was told to also check the ground on the fuse box just not sure where it is.

There won't be any ground on any fuse box - there could be a ground connection adjacent to a fuse box - I don't have pictures or experience with the 92 civic ex.

If you can post some pictures it would be helpful.

The problem almost has to be: Battery, alternator, wiring issue or some conbination thereof.

The "Battery" light is really a "Charging" or "Alternator Condition" light that's labeled "Battery" by some idiot. It has nothing to do with the battery per se, just telling you, when lit, that the battery is heading towards a discharge condition because it's carrying all the electrical load. Normally, the alternator carries all the electrical load including charging the battery. That is when the engine is running.

 

[flydex28]

Ahh ok... well the honda dealership (service dept.) was of absolutely no help at all. I had to convince him to even check the battery which he said was good.. he wouldnt check the alt.... saying the chances of having three alternators with the same symptoms in a row would be like winning the lottery... which i beg to differ. Then he asked me if i had any schooling in this and was trying to belittle me like i am some kind of idiot I guess, and was basically trying to tell me i had to bring it into the shop at $70 an hour even though he couldnt tell me any ideas at all. Long story short got nothing accomplished today so im just gonna go down the list in the service manual and check every single ground i can get to and switch out the positive and neg batt cable when i can. hopefully next week, we'll see. Im still thinking about that ELD fusebox but that will have to wait.

 

[Dual-500]

Service Advisors

That sounds all to familiar.

I have a 1990 T-10 (S-10 w 4x4) chevrolet pickup. A few weeks after taking delivery on the truck, the drive system indicator lamps weren't working correctly on the floor shift console, so I took it in for warranty. Got it back 2 days later and the lights were working fine. Took it out offroad, put it in 4wd low range and hammered the 4.3L V-6 to the floorboard. The transfer case jumped out of gear at about 4000 RPM. I lifted off the throttle immediately. Fortunately, nothing hurt.

Took it home and pulled the cover of the floor console. I had bought a full set of factory service manuals from Helms when I took the truck home. The transfer case shift handle is indexed to a metal bracket that bolts to the side of the TH700-R4 transmission. The indexing bracket must be correctly aligned to position the shift lever correctly between lo, hi and neutral. It was not. Some clueless idiot worked on it. There is an alignment hole in it, and it takes the shank of a drill bit inserted through the bracket and into the indexing hole in the transmission to correctly align the bracket prior to tighteneing it up in position.

I called GMAC the following monday morning and cancelled the extended warranty on the wife's 1989 chevy blazer and on my 1990 T-10. That was the last time I took a vehicle into anyone for maintenance outside of wheel alignment and new tires.

Never again. I buy my own tools and do my own work. I have just about everything need for the ole civic. Compression gauge, vacuum guages, etc. All I can think of I still need is a vacuum pump. I want to test the MAP sensor and will pick up a pump soon for that.

I had similar experiences with chrysler dealers back in the late 80's and "Service Advisors". Moron's with the equivalent IQ of the average used car salesperson - only less ambition.

 

[Dual-500]

You need to have the negative battery terminal go to the chassis and then on to the engine/transmission. It could be done in 2 pieces - battery to chassis with one, and chassis to engine with the other piece of cable. The two lugs should be on the same terminal where they are joined at the chassis connection.

 

[Dual-500]

If the voltage is holding about 14v under load the alternator is probably fine.

This may help: http://www.senorpanadero.net/uploader/userfiles/stevew/HondaSwap/62SR320.PDF

The manual is Helms and should be for your year and model Honda.

It could be the indicator circuit itself is the issue - no way of know at this end.

If you have car running and lights on anything noticeable when the ALT light comes on? Like headlights dimming or battery voltage dropping.?

I don't know what kind of meter you are using, but for this work an analog is probably the best with a meter and pointer instead of digital. Doesn't need to be an expensive one - a $10 Radio Shack special will work fine.

 

[flydex28]

Ok so havent fixed it yet although i did finally make it to a salvage yard and picked up an ELD fuse box. I havent put it in yet though. Funny thing is... now the light wont come back on. I have one of those little meters you plug into the cigarette lighter for when you are driving and have been noticing the longer I drive, the higher the voltage reads. For instance if I drive down the highway for an hour it goes from 14.5 volts all the way to like 15.1 or 15.2 by the time I get there. I also noticed the other night I was driving down the road and when I let off the gas to turn onto my street the headlights dimmed and the alt. light flickered for a sec. I havent seen it since though.

 

[Dual-500]

Ok so havent fixed it yet although i did finally make it to a salvage yard and picked up an ELD fuse box. I havent put it in yet though. Funny thing is... now the light wont come back on. I have one of those little meters you plug into the cigarette lighter for when you are driving and have been noticing the longer I drive, the higher the voltage reads. For instance if I drive down the highway for an hour it goes from 14.5 volts all the way to like 15.1 or 15.2 by the time I get there. I also noticed the other night I was driving down the road and when I let off the gas to turn onto my street the headlights dimmed and the alt. light flickered for a sec. I havent seen it since though.

The voltage regulator circuitry in the alternator is squirrely. Better replace alternator before it give up or frys the battery if hasn't already. Putting it under load (turning on lights) and the ALT light comes on is also an indicator.

 

[flydex28]

Well thats gonna certainly piss me off its the alt after all this. Considering the guy at Honda wouldnt even test it and its my fourth one. Im wondering if the computer could be at fault but it does kinda sound like a voltage reg. huh?

 

[Dual-500]

Absolutely sounds like the voltage regulator. It should never read much above 14V. And it's drifting around when you drive and when load conditions change.

Corrosion or any bad connection can manifest like this also. Remember, troubleshooting over the web on a keyboard is like calling the Psychic Hotline.

I'm really suggesting things to check and just sharing experience. FWIW.

We're assuming the meter used is good and so on. I would have a alternator load tested. If the alternator is indeed screwy it may have punished the battery.

Many time when one gets changed the other gets change too.

 

[flydex28]

There is an alt shop here in town.. thinking i may take it there and have him check it out for me. Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[RHDism]

First of all. Why would anyone buy alternators from 3 different suppliers?
An alternator is a very simple component.
Your dash "battery" light illuminatating does not immediately indicate there is a faulty battery or alternator. Simply indicates there is an issue within the charging system in general. You stated you had the alternator checked good, meaning it was delivering no more than 14.5 volts and no less than 13.2.

You also mentioned an engine swap. Consider checking the 4 wire connector that plugs into the alternator. Ive seen where some peeps swap this plug to convert OBD tyoe and dont do the best job cutting an reconnecting. If your battery dash light is flickering, that is an indication of a loose wire or connection.

Good luck.

 

[flydex28]

Because alot of the time most places around here do not carry this alternator..and when you are stuck out of town you get what you can to make it home. As it is I had to wait a week and a half to get this alt from the Honda dealership near me. Also the alt usually reds higher than or around 14.5 volts, and goes down as low as 12.2 or so. The plug is fine.. swap was down like five years ago.

 

[Dual-500]

When you get it fixed be sure and post the solution. Also, grease up the plug on the alternator with white grease real good when you install the replacement unit. Keeps the water out. Grease the o-ring and slather up the face of plug real good.

Before re-grease:

Greased up and ready for install:

 

[flydex28]

will do... im gonna try to get it looked at this week on my days off.. maybe call up honda and see about a replacement if this one is bad. But ill be sure to post it on here.

 

[RHDism]

Because alot of the time most places around here do not carry this alternator..and when you are stuck out of town you get what you can to make it home. As it is I had to wait a week and a half to get this alt from the Honda dealership near me. Also the alt usually reds higher than or around 14.5 volts, and goes down as low as 12.2 or so. The plug is fine.. swap was down like five years ago.

Not so much the plug itself.. the wiring down stream.Check for cracks or brakes. Greasing the plug and connectors is good common practice as well.
I would rule out alternator replacing.