B16 electrical issues

[theczechone]

Setup: 92 civic hatch B16A 2nd gen running a p30 ecu

My car runs well in the morning unless i turn it off and start it back up, than it runs like crap
in the afternoon the car runs ok for a while and than runs like crap (spitting sputtering missing),
I can turn the a/c on and make it run ok for a little while longer, and than it starts running poorly again (a/c doesn't get cold since the problem showed up),
In the morning the temps are around 75 degrees F and in afternoon around 100 degrees F
Prior to the problem showing up, the screw out of the distributor rotor backed out and destroyed the cap and rotor

Parts replaced or checked
MAP sensor
O2 sensor
Spark Plugs - NGK Iridium
Plug Wires - Duralast (2nd set- just to be sure)
Distributor Cap
Distributor Rotor

Parts replaced roughly 6months ago
TPS
Ignitor
IACV
Thermostat

I noticed that the vtec wire harness was just clipped in with cheap connectors so I decided to solder it in, after i did this I have a code 41- Primary Oxygen Sensor Heater. I replaced the o2 sensor and I still have the same code.
What else could trigger this code 41?

What could be causing a this problem?


I am desprate, the hatch is my only mode of transportation to work, I would really appreciate if someone could help. Thank you for reading

 

[CAFROG]

Bump for you. You checked/replaced a lot of stuff that I would say to check.
How did you check them? Multi-meter? Volts/ohms?
O2 new or used? OEM or aftermarket?

 

[91_stylin_civic]

I think it was on this site i read about the heated 02 sensors sometimes the heated wires need to be switched around. Im not sure if this would cause your problem but it maybe worth a shot.

 

[EKJOE]

Well I remember when I had code 41 and replaced the o2 and it didnt make it go away.

You know what is more than likely your problem....Your o2 hasnt been working at all.... 41 really means your o2 is either bad or wired incorrectly.

Your problem is probly because the secondary o2 plug is plugged into the primary sensor...They are the same exact plug's and you wont know if its wrong until you;

1. Check a wiring diagram and match up wire colors to figure out which one is the primary plug or;

2. Find what would be the secondary plug and plug it into your o2, reset the ECU and see if the code goes away forever.

BTW, I would start by doing continuity tests between the o2 plugs to the end of your engine harness to make sure the signal is making it to the ECU...Because you could have the right plug plugged into the o2 but if the signal isnt making it to the ECU its still the same problem.

I felt real stupid when I realized my o2 hadnt been working the whole time because I had the secondary plug plugged into it and I spent 70 bucks on a new o2 that I probly didnt need.

 

[CAFROG]

The O2 needs to be fixed but the problems he is having doens't sound O2 sensor
I have seen tons of guys rolling around with no O2 (I dont advise) without his problems

Like I said...start running around the car for electrical continuity and such. It seeems to be
a wire issue or a bad clip b/c you've changed out almost every sensor and valve lol

 

[theczechone]

First of all thank you for all the replies
lol yeah i have tried just about everything

second, the code 41 is my mistake because when i soldered in the new wires I wired that one wrong. (I'm ADD, oops)

the map sensor, i checked by using one of another car, and using mine on the other car and got the same results

What I have been thinking could be the problem is the distributor or the contents of the distributor, basically when the screw backed out of the rotor I think it may have damaged the ICM or something else in there.
Because the car only does this when it wants to how do i go about checking that, I need to stop throwing parts at it because it's getting a tad pricey

The ECU is my next guess, I run into the same problem the car only acts up at certain times so I don't know how to test appropriately.

 

[CAFROG]

Try another dizzy (hopefully a friend's so you dont spend more money)
I still say its electrical. What harness are you using? Has it been hacked
up and put back together? Have a multi-meter? Like I said before...multi-meter
would be my direction for troubleshooting. Or get another p30 to try...or
a p28 chipped with a B16 basemap.

Otherwise...you're spending money to find out it may be a super cheap fix.

 

[CAFROG]

I would look into getting no CEL
hopefully you fixed the O2 wiring issue already

 

[theczechone]

I am not sure what wire harness is used, it looks like the stock vx harness is used and another set of wires are spliced into it, pretty sure thats for the vtec and the knock sensor I think a total of five wires are spliced in.
The cel is gone now that i have moved the wire to its proper location.
I live in tupelo, ms, just moved here and only saw one hatch with work(rice) done to it. I will ask around but it will tough to find those parts. what dizzy can I use out of which car?
again thank you for all the replies

 

[CAFROG]

Your a 92 hatch and all models that year were wired for VTEC from engine bay to ECU
A VX harness is wired for VTEC....and with this info...
MAYBE the 5 wires you speak of are for the VTEC solenoid and oil pressure but all that
was needed was extending the solenoid and oil pressure lines on the harness. Where exactly
are these wires going to on the motor? You have no CEL now...thats good. So what are the
symptoms now?

 

[theczechone]

symptoms are still the same car runs fine for a while, but it will start missing and sputtering I have noticed that if I produce any kind of a draw of power like turn on the ac fan or turn the lights on, or turn the wipers on the car runs better.
Today I borrowed my friends ls ecu and ran the car with it and it seemed to fix the problem. the car drove fine.
I wonder if this means that my ecu is jacked or the car just needed the extra fuel. Doesn't the ls use more fuel?

 

[CAFROG]

It could be a few things. Definitely electrical with the car running better with stuff turned on but
that only narrows it down a little tiny bit. It could still be tons fo stuff until you start eliminating
them. Use a multi-meter and start researching aspects of wiring continuity and ohm loads on your
motor. But...I would first run that LS ECU for a while....not just a spurt that allows it to fool you
b/c it hasn't had time to act up. If it truly goes away...then its the ECU....there doesn't seem to be
any valid reason why your motor is starving for gas b/c of the ECU....I don't know for sure but I
would never think an LS ECU feed more fuel then an P30. But the P30 could be bad.

 

[theczechone]

well i wasn't able to run that ecu as long as I wanted my friend needed it back,
but I ran a very smilar drive cycle with the LS ecu as with the p30, it was a same drive cycle that would cause the car to run rough with the p30.
is the p30 the best ecu for the b16a?
I am having trouble locating one for a decent price.

 

[CAFROG]

You can run a P28 (or the OBD1 Civic Non-VTEC with conversion)
But, in any event, if you don't run a p30 (JDM can be found) it NEEDS to have a base map
for the B16 (find someone reputable....no dough heads that think they have a chip that 'should'
work) And if you are SUPER SURE it would have reacted the same if it WASN'T the
ECU...then you can go buy one. Look for a p30 Find someone who does chipped ECU's b/c
the cheapiest way is to have a guy set you up with a non-vtec OBD1 ECU (Like a DX ECU)
that he has re-vamped and set up for the VTEC B16.

Either way....its $100-175 and if you're okay with the results you got from the other ECU...it
seems to be the way to go.

 

[theczechone]

I saw this site being talked about a lot on honda-tech, would this be a good way to go?

 

[CAFROG]

What site?

 

[theczechone]

phearable.net oops did I mention i am ADD lol

 

[CAFROG]

You can do that for an ECU but some research and you could probably do it cheaper.
They seem to be a middle man and will probably take much longer to get it back

 

[theczechone]

they claim 1-3 days lead time before it ships which is not too bad granted I'll get something made custom for my car. Just as a comparison I am looking at a stock p30 shipped to my door at $140 so just trying to figure out if it is worth to spend the little extra cash.

 

[CAFROG]

I cannot attest to it being worth it or a waste of money. Me? I'd get the P30 but thats just
because I know the air/fuel ratio is good to go and I would feel the need to make sure the
chipped one is programmed for my specific set up (which my set up is far from crazy hardcore
advanced) And that would involve at least a tuner hooking a computer up to the ECU...or
dyno/tun