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B16 mounts

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> ED-EF / DA' started by 90AccordH22, Dec 15, 2005.

  1. 90AccordH22

    90AccordH22 Member

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    What's going on everybody I'm about to order a B16A for my Hatch(EF) the motor that I'm going to order comes with the JDM mounts and linkage. I know you always have to buy mounts to go B-series but if I get the SiR mounts will they work with my car being from the USDM and all? All so will the linkage also work out of the EF9?
     
  2. B16RacerN2NR

    B16RacerN2NR Working Hard VIP

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    no, you need a mount kit. no if's and or buts about it. but the shift linkage on the other will work but ONLY if you get EF Linkage. The Linkage out of the DA Integra being it USDM or JDM will not work. So make absolutely sure you get the EF linkage. If you are getting your swap from HMotors, ask Steve if he has any EF Linkage, he'll gladly give it to you, if he has any in stock tho. If he doesn't then your just a shit out of luck.
    They have mount kits on Ebay right now for like $150 shipped. now they don't look as pretty or last as long as HaSport mounts but they are still good. I've used the EBay mount kit on several swaps with no complaints and they are all still going strong.
    I have EF B Series Linkage for sale so if you might need it, $80 shipped to your door. :)
     
  3. VTECin5th

    VTECin5th Administrator

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    I'm curious as to why if he gets the SiR mounts/linkage from an SiR (EF) it won't drop in with the same mounts/linkage?
    [​IMG]
     
  4. 90AccordH22

    90AccordH22 Member

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    Thanks for your response I'll keep everybody posted, I have a set of CTR pistons and ITR cams to drop into that motor everybody wish me luck on my first B-series
     
  5. Citizen_Insane

    Citizen_Insane Senior Member

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    Don't skimp on the mounts, Id say get the Hasports or the Az-racing copies. They're both solid billet aluminum and the Hasports are garenteed never to brake (but I've never heard of one breaking).
     
  6. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    jdm mounts wont work in a usdm crx. the mounting positions on the chassis are different.
     
  7. 90siTuner

    90siTuner Senior Member

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    i got some avid mounts for a EF->B-series if you want them. i never ran them just mounted them pm me if your interested.
     
  8. drpenguin

    drpenguin Senior Member

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    the mounts from the SIR will work if you have a SIR ef. if you have a usdm one they wont. reason being that no ef here in the states came with a b-series motor. the mounts on a b series motor and dseries are not the same. i had the mounts in my crx re welded to fit a bseries motor and the have to move all the mounts except the one for the motor. either getthen rewelded (best bang for money and safer. or get a kit
     
  9. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    The JDM mounts will work, but you'll have to cut and reweld the brackets that are on your chassis. The JDM SiR's mounting points were identical to that of a DA Integra. I'd just buy a mount kit if I were you, you can find them for a few hundred bucks nowadays.
     
  10. Exodus

    Exodus Junior Member

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    The mounts and the linkage from the B16A will not bolt into an ED chassis car.

    You can move the transaxle mount bracket from it's stock location on the frame further forward in your engine bay, move the rear mount over towards the drivers side and grind down the ends of the bolt sleeves inside of the mounts to make them work. The shift linkage would have to be half D, half B-Series to work.

    While this work would require the ability to cut, modify and weld metal from the person doing it, and that it is an inexpensive route to swap a B-Series engine into an ED chassis, I still wouldn't recommend it.

    To do it correctly, you would have to be able to calculate whether or not you've achieved the correct axle and engine geometry once you have mounted the engine. I'm pretty sure Honda spent a little more time on deciding where it would sit best in the bay than it would take any of us to physically do all of this work. None of us would likely ever get it correct. Even if everything seemed normal at first, something would likely break.

    Hasport is the number one choice of most when considering an out-of-series engine swap into their car. This is for one reason. Hasport makes the BEST parts that you can use to do this. Is this going to turn into a testimonial? No. I've used their mounts before and enjoyed every minute of it, but I'm not going to tell you to use them based on my experience, I'm going to tell you to use them because they are the correct parts and pieces to use.

    Hasport makes their mounts and linkage with stolen information. The make these parts in the same factories that Honda makes their parts stateside. The metal alloy, the angles, the geometry, measurements, specifications, all of it, is Honda OEM (basically).

    You literally cannot find a kit like theres unless you are looking through an OEM parts catalog. Years ago, they got the information the needed to make mount kit that work properly and that had the correct angles and dimensions from a leak at Honda and from then on produced their stuff in the same factory, using all of Honda's info etc... It's like Honda is making these kits for you.

    So basically, you cannot really beat a Hasport mount and linkage kit because as it stands, it's OEM quality, and you cannot beat Honda OEM quality :)

    If you want to do the swap properly, buy the Hasport mount and linkage kit. Wire what you have to and take your time. Do not half-ass your wiring. You'll spend more time\money\effort doing it twice+ than you will just doing it right the first time, take my word for it. Route wires through harnesses, use factory connectors if possible and try to ensure that you only use one solder connection per wire-route (I say wire-route meaning from the ECU pin to the pin in the connector at the sensor... the wire may break several times in between those to points, I just mean between two pins there should only be one, strong and well done solder point.)

    I recommend cutting and welding the spot on your frame where the B16A alternator needs room, rather than the method of denting it in with a hammer. That will weaken the structural integrity in that area and is less professional, besides looking shoddy.

    The front crossmember will need to be modified as well. Use a drill to drill out the welds holding the mount bracket to remove it. Grind, sand and primer as necessary to smoothen the finish after it is removed and save the bracket should you need it again someday. The factory B16A header should clear the crossmember contrary to popular belief. I've heard much about having to notch it for the A-pipe to clear, but in my experience, it's always proven wrong. Same for the DC Sports 4-2-1 header that I've used, it cleared just fine.

    Should you require any assistance wiring, I'd be glad to try and assist you through PMs.

    Anything else should already be covered on this website in the reference areas, or in this thread already. If not, feel free to contact me with questions.
     
  11. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    <span style="font-family:Fixedsys"><span style="color:red"><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%">WRONG</span></span></span>

    The linkage will work. The only way the linkage would NOT work was if it was from an Integra XSi. If the B16a is from an EF8/EF9, it will work. I know this for 100% sure as I used the JDM EF8 linkage in my 89 hatch last year.


    And dude, all I have to say about your post is what the FUCK.

    Stolen information? Metal alloy? Dude, have you ever actually held a Hasport mount? Hasport mounts are billet aluminum...show me an OEM Honda billet mount. What's that? OEM mounts aren't billet? You don't say! Additionally, Hasport does NOT make their mounting kits in the same factories that Honda makes their parts in...Hasport makes them....AT HASPORT. They make their mounts. They also did all their own R&D for the mounts. How see the fuck can hasport use Honda specs? They are making a kit that puts an engine in a chassis that Honda never INTENDED for the motor to be in...

    Well, actually, they did take the specs from Honda for one kit....the EFK1 kit.
    [​IMG]

    It's the mounting kit for a K20 in a CRX. They stole the plans from honda from the uber-rare K20A-powered 2007 CRX that Honda is re-releasing. You may have seen the pictures circulating the internet of this fabled beast.

    NO! Honda did NOT spend ANY time deciding where an engine would best sit in a USDM engine bay...HASPORT DID! Which is why the best thing to do is buy HASPORT MOUNTS!

    NO! No they didn't!

    Do you know what it takes to make a mount kit? You suspend the motor with a hoist, measure the correct angles for the axles and engine alignment, make cardboard templates, and cast/forge/whatever the mounts.
    That's it! Place Racing, HCP, and Avid, among SEVERAL other companies, offer mounting kits that work FINE. Some of them aren't the quality of Hasport, but this is because Hasport put a LOT more R&D into the manufacturing and design of their mounts.

    What's that you say? 'Don't halfass it...use factory connectors'?!?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    201 all-motor WHP says you can use whatever the fuck connectors you want to.

    Dude, I don't know where you're getting your information from, but you might want to try saving a few more boxtops next time you send in on a 'Get your own ASE certification' program. The 5 boxtops certification may give you the experience to change a timing belt, misinstall the valve cover, and charge the customer $700 (a.k.a. 'Dealership Timing Belt Change), but it doesn't give you the experience and/or knowledge to know what the fuck you're talking about, as you have clearly demonstrated in your previous post.

    Thank you, and drive thru.
     
  12. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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  13. Exodus

    Exodus Junior Member

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    Before I get into this, I'd like to say that I've reviewed my previous post after seeing the reply to it and I've decided that I could've typed it better.

    civicious made some good arguments and he is mostly right, literally. This is because he's being literal, in terms of what I typed, not what I mean or think. I'll do my best here to correct some things and hopefully we can reach some kind of consensus. The problem here is mostly semmantics.

    I want to say that I'm always willing to be proven wrong and there is at least one instance where civicious has done it. I don't care if I'm proven wrong, it's not insulting at all, I care about having the correct information, not who is "right or wrong". Winning an argument won't make your car the better of the two, but good information will.

    Most of the issues here are communication related. I should've reviewed my words more carefully.

    Not long ago, a friend of mine who works for Honda in the R&D department explained some things to me about mounts and linkage. He lived in California a while back and met the two guys who own Hasport. I think he said their names are Doug and Joe, I can't remember.

    He told me that he'd put the B18A1 into his 90 CRX Si before those two made the mount kit, and that they did it originally the same way that he did it, before the whole mount kit situation even came about, and that was cutting and welding with the stock mounts to make it work. I don't know who came up with the idea first, probably none of them thought of it before someone else did.

    He went on to tell me about their swap linkage. Saying that information leaked from Honda gave them the correct angles to use, what kind of metal to use, etc.. etc.. for the various swaps. He told me they have their linkage made through at least one of Honda's factories, using the same metal and specs and various other things.

    The mounts being made in-house makes plenty of sense to me, I wish Honda had factory billet mounts :)

    I don't ever feel the need to get too awfully specific with information I get from this guy because I can't always remember it perfectly, nor does he ever present all of the information. He works for R&D, he's not allowed to. Sometimes being vague helps when you are trying not to say something false. I should've probably clarified the mounts versus linkage thing, clearly, the mounts wouldn't be made in the same factory as they are billet and designed somewhat differently. What I was told about the linkage is that it is basically OEM because it's the same metal and specifications as Honda's. I'll stick to that because I will believe him before anyone else and I'm not going to debate his points for him either. I know what he's told me and it's nothing I question.

    I hope you aren't serious about the 2007 CRX.

    As far as "Don't halfass it...use factory connectors" I didn't use those words in the same context, you make it look that way and because it somewhat applies to you, you percieved it that way.

    When I said "Don't halfass it" I meant to say about the wiring in general, it didn't have anything to do with what connectors to use. I prefer to use factory connectors myself, but if none are available, or if one from Radio Shack will suffice, that's how I'll do it. When I said to use the factory connectors, it was a piece of advice, not a command, nor was it the end all be all of swap how-to information. The head in your picture looks nice, whether that connector is factory or not.

    civicious, I want you to understand that I'm not angry with you at all. You did a great job of nit-picking through my thread. When I see something I totally disagree with, I do exactly what you did. We are very similar in that respect. I've got no ill-will towards you or anything. I don't care what you think about me back, I just want you to know I'm not attacking you at all. It was my fault for not being clear enough, and if this post isnt either, I'll fix it again.

    I'm not ASE Certified, I will say that right now. I don't even really want to be ASE certified. In college, we were told that ASE is the industry joke. Sort of a formality if anything, but it is also used the most to determine things like whether or not someone is capable and has the right credentials for a job. In a lot of instances, it separates the men from the boys, but there will always be that 90yr old mechanic who can school any ASE Master Tech because of experience. A 90yr old whose got the torque specs for an entire decade of cars is more useful than a "good test taker" as far as I'm concerned, but the industry wants people who look good on paper. My certification is with Honda. I'm a tech in training. I go to school for it. I've got nothing to do with ASE.

    You seem to know what you are talking about and I credit you for that. Please don't mistake 201 NA WHP on a B-Series engine as a testament to knowledge and intelligence, though. It takes more money than knowledge to do that, though I know it's possible to make more torque to the wheels than you made HP using mostly factory parts. I'd rather not get into an argument over who the better engine builder is because I know it's probably not me. I've got more information than experience and I will be the first person to say that about myself. Call that a bluff if you want to, it's no concern of mine. My vehicle speaks for itself, so does my work.
     
  14. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    you cant make 200 trq to the wheels NA with factory parts. hell youd be hard pressed to do it bored/stroked with all aftermarket parts pushing 15:1 compression.
     
  15. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    Ya know, I really didn't have any MAJOR problems with your post (other than what Ian has already pointed out), other than this...

    I didn't mistake 201 NA WHP on a B-series engine as a testament to my knowledge and intelligence. I 'mistook' my knowledge and intelligence which I used in building, in my bedroom, a 201 NA WHP B-series engine, as a testament to my knowledge and intelligence.
     
  16. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    haha, ya 200w/tq is quite a feat on an NA Bseries.
     
  17. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    And as far as your '201 torque to the wheels with mostly stock parts', let me introduce you to a list of specifications....


    Displacement 2381 cc
    Bore & Stroke 87.5 x 99
    Comp Ratio 15.0:1
    Horsepower 315 whp
    Torque 200 w tq

    Wheelbase 101.2"
    Weight 1725lbs w/ driver
    Chassis by PMR Race Cars
    Carbon work by Southwest Perf
    Wheels Weld Racing
    Tires BFGoodrich
    Shocks Moton Shocks
    Pistons Forged Aluminum
    Connecting rods Forged 4340E
    Crank Genuine Honda
    Cylinder Head Skunk2 CNC Port
    Camshafts Skunk2 Prototype
    Valve Springs Skunk2 Racing
    Valves Skunk2 Forged Stainless
    Retainers Skunk2 Titanium
    Header Skunk2 Prototype
    Intake Skunk2 Prototype
    Transmission Genuine Honda 6 Speed
    Injectors RC Engineering
    Ignition MSD DIS4
    ECU Motec
    Data Acquisition Motec ADL






    Anyone know what those are from?





    ....







    It's the Skunk2 RSX, which ran 9.86's. And that was a K-series.
     
  18. civicious

    civicious FüK-VTEC VIP

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    200 w/tq is NOT gonna happen on an allmotor B-series with 'mostly oem parts'.
     
  19. 90siTuner

    90siTuner Senior Member

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    everytime i read that guys posts for some reason he always seems british....
     
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