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Computer Stuff

Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by eyesonlybob, Feb 24, 2003.

  1. eyesonlybob

    eyesonlybob Senior Member

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    well i just upgraded my sys, and im getting ready to overclock it. heres what i have right now:

    asus mobo
    amd 1.1 ghz
    consair 512mb pc2700
    gf4 ti4200 128mb

    i want to oc the cpu and the video card and watercool.

    ive picked out the waterblocks, made by danger den:

    cpu water block:
    [​IMG]

    gf4 water block:
    [​IMG]

    im wanting some opinions on radiators and size of pumps to use. i would perfer a small radiator, maybe one with an 80mm fan on it because i lack places in my case for it. how would this perform for what i plan on doing relative to using say a dual 120mm fan radiator?

    as far as size of pumps my question is: how many gph(gallons per hours) should i go for? if the water goes too fast through the water block does that mean that it doesnt have as long to take the heat? is a smaller gph able to push enough water through the tubes?

    hopefully someone actually knows about watercooling and can help. thanks.
     
  2. DazedCivic99

    DazedCivic99 Senior Member

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    looks nice i suppose, if i remember correctly i think calesta has something like what u are talking about
     
  3. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    im sure calesta can help you out on this one. his pc looks like a fish tank :p
     
  4. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Danger Den blocks are good. I have a few of the older versions... same cuts, just without neato lexan tops that you can see the fluid flowing through.

    You want to size your radiator to your heat load. I don't know all the sites off the top of my head anymore, but most of the good places show what the heat capacity of their radiators are with typical fans on them. I really wouldn't recommend running a radiator small enough for only an 80mm fan though- if you're throwing a decent amount of heat through it, it won't dissipate heat fast enough for you. You could look at the "Black Ice" radiator- it's a purpose built PC radiator that's extremely efficient, and I think it comes in sizes down to 80mm now. I have a 120mm one that has a heat capacity of about 500 watts, and they've gone through a few design revisions since I bought mine. Add up how much heat you need to remove, then size the radiator accordingly. Your typical high speed AMD chip or P4 chip will probably dump 100-150 watts of heat into your system. The video card can produce easily up to 100 watts on its own as well. Add in the chipset if you're cooling it, and hard drives if you're cooling those also.

    On water speed- just get a pump that will still move your water through your lines at a decent speed. There is no "too fast" in water cooling. You're right in assuming that faster water movement means less heat transferred to the water, but only to one particular volume of water that you're moving through the block. You load up your water less, and you can unload the heat just as fast at the radiator. Faster water movement = more water flowing by same heat source = faster heat removal. If you go too slow, you run the danger of possibly overloading the heat capacity of your water... move it too fast, and you only run the danger of cavitation. Basically, water movement speed doesn't really matter as long as you're not moving too slow to move the heat away from your sources, and you're not moving fast enough to start cavitating around your restrictive areas. I forget what my pumps are rated at, but I think I'm moving about 2 gallons per minute in my system.

    Think of it this way- the slower you move your water, the more time is has to pick up heat, but you also give it more time to dump the heat in the radiator. If you move it TOO slow, you can't load up the water with any more heat, and you still need all the time in the radiator to get rid of that same heat. Since you can't remove all the heat from your sources, they start to increase in temperature and eventually fail. If you move your water through your sources faster, you give the water less time to pick up the heat, but you also fresh cold water coming into the source that much quicker. You have less time in the radiator to get rid of your heat, but you have less heat per mass of water to get rid of, so it's ok.

    So... faster water flow = better cooling, to an extent.

    Looking at your system specs, those water blocks should be more than sufficient to cool your components. Get a reservoir and pump combo that pushes at least 1 gallon per minute (reservoir helps you remove air from the system without needing to bleed it), and get something equivalent to the single 120mm fan size Black Ice radiator. If you have room for an 80mm fan and 80mm radiator, you should be able to make room for the 120mm. If there's a 92mm version of that radiator available, it would probably work just fine too.

    I hope this helps- if you need more info, let me know.
     
  5. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    http://www.dangerden.com/mall/radiators.asp

    There you go... the "Black Ice Micro" looks like it might fit your bill. Make sure you put a HUGE 80mm fan on there though, otherwise you may run out of heat capacity... but I doubt it. You'll be close, but still have some headroom left to play in.
     
  6. kyleirwin

    kyleirwin Retired OG

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    jesus crist! wouldn't it just be cheaper and a hell of a lot easier to just buy the faster processor in the first place.
     
  7. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Not if your setup requires enough air cooling at stock speeds that the noise annoys the heck out of you, and not if you already own the fastest processor, and the speeds you're trying to push aren't available on the market just yet.

    :lol:
     
  8. CRX-YEM

    CRX-YEM Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    Calesta

    Wouldn't it be easier to use a chiller as well as a radiator.
    that way you can chill the H2O after it comes out of the radiator,
    and send very cold H2O to the CPU. Then the effects of pump speed
    are reduced even more you don't have to worry about running too slow.
     
  9. eyesonlybob

    eyesonlybob Senior Member

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    wow, that cleared up a lot, thanks. it also brought up a new question:

    submergable(sp) pumps vs. one thats in-line with the reservoir...

    you said a reservoir helps remove air from the system without needing to bleed it, is this with a submergable pump or one thats attached to the pump with a hose (in-line)? how big of a reservoir do i need? etc..

    i like the idea of having a submergable pump because it will cut down on the noise of the pump even more. with a submergable pump would i just fill it, pump till it gets low, fill more, pump and keep doing that until the water level doesnt go down? think thats all my questions for now.
     
  10. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Dennis-

    Yes you could, but then you're dealing with refrigeration units mounted inside your computer to chill the water... and if you're trying to chill the water below room temperature, it's better to just focus the refrigeration unit directly on the chip. Some people already do this with phase change cooling units which evaporate your choice of refrigerant directly on top of the chip, effectively creating an infinite capacity heat sink on top of the chip. Some of these units are able to maintain a chip temperature of -40 degrees Celcius at idle, and something not too much higher than that under full load, depending on what kind of chip you're using.

    If you're using a good enough radiator setup, you don't really have to worry about cooling the water any more than just running air through the radiator. I have a radiator on my system that's configured like an automotive radiator- dimensions about 12 inches by 7 inches by 1 inch thick, flowing only about 60cfm constant through it. My apartment stays right at 74-76 degrees F, and the water temp in my CPU water block never exceeds 85 degrees F under full load. You can't really gain much benefit by trying to cool the water in the radiator below ambient- just cool the CPU directly if you're going to go with active cooling.

    Bob- (I assume that's your name)

    With an in-line pump, you'll get more noise, you'll be more compact, but you'll really have to work to get all the air out of the system. With a submerged pump inside a reservoir, you just keep turning your system every which way and tapping on the lines to get all the air out, and keep adding water to the reservoir. Some air in the top of the reservoir is ok, since you'll basically be using it as a fill tank to draw your water out of, and as long as your water inlet is submerged, you won't have any problems. All my water cooled setups have been of the reservoir type- it's just easier to deal with. I don't hear my pump at all, and I have 2 of them flowing about 4 gallons a minute.

    So yeah, you have your bleeding method pretty much figured out, but you really have to fill it all up before you install any components, then manhandle the case every which direction until you get ALL the air out of the lines. It gets a little cumbersome when just your case weighs 100 pounds, but it's worth the trouble to do it right the first time. You can't just keep filling the reservoir and assume that all the air is out.
     
  11. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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  12. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Dude- it really helps! I've had hoses go to shit because I ran them without additives in the water- my competition box had no problems with crap growing in them or clouding for over a year on the same change of water, and I attribute that to the Water Wetter. Some places even sell Royal Purple to put in your computer. You should see what they charge- especially when people don't realize they can just walk down to the local auto parts store and pick some up cheap.

    :lol:
     
  13. endlesszeal

    endlesszeal Senior Member

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    damn i didnt know computers could utilize water pumps or watever.. i was just happy when my parents told me "dude, you're getting a Dell" with a nice 300mhz precessor, 10 GB, and a super fast 64 mb RAM.. that was about 4 years ago.. still using it now.. :lol:
     
  14. vtecsir1

    vtecsir1 Senior Member

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    just hook up some n20, that should cool it off. jk
     
  15. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    I have no doubt that it helps. I am seriously looking into water cooling my next system. It (the water cooling system) is the same exact theory behind using "water" to cool your car engine so why wouldn't the same additives work (as long as they don't eat the hose). I was noticing the pricing. Ouch.
     
  16. Domeskilla

    Domeskilla Senior Member

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    After my move, I will be building a nice, all out, water cooled system. :)
     
  17. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Zeal- yup. I've been water cooling computers for a good number of years now. It's just starting to catch on as a "mainstream" thing.

    Eric- Cool. Let me know if you need any help.

    Codee- Damn, everyone wants to be a biter! :lol:
     
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